Seriously, what is happening with Enfield? I mean in social media it’s getting millions and millions of views, while here it’s getting 6 mil revenue? Even if we say 70% revenue comes from pc and console, the total would still be only 10 mil
$6 million on mobile is the average for End Field phase 2 banners so not sure why people are surprised. Only banner that had any legs recently is Arcane who did about double the usual revenue (~$10 million, last month). End Field next month will do ~$10 million again because it’s a phase 1 banner with a presumably decent story. The cycle will only be broken by Si (main push) coming probably in October or November. Then it might do $20 million.
Kind of, I actually feel like many people (mistakenly?) thought Zhuang was the Wuling main push, since she had 2 forms. I know I bought into the hype back then. The lack of reliable leaks in End Field helps build this impression, which is probably intentional.
Zhuang was actually the last End Field banner that did well (e.g. top 7 CN, which is really respectable numbers when you consider HSR only made it to top 7 CN with Robin) and back then End Field fans were still in an euphoria over how well the game was performing on mobile despite its 70% PC/console share. I still remember seeing posts in CN about how End Field was the only legitimate challenger to Genshin.
They didn't know what was coming. Any way, Arcane was definitely the most popular in recent months. And she did do better numbers than Mifu for sure.
as someone who quit it I think it lacks a hook, the story wasn't good at all, the tower defence is shit so it's left with combat and factory building, the latter was very fun at first but there's only so much time you can keep feeling that satisfaction from building things with how limited it is, it leaves the question of why would I choose it among many other games with open world gacha
And for factory game players, why would they play a watered down factory game when Factorio, Satisfactory, and Shapez 2 exist?
Endfield is cool for trying something different. I think they and NTE have proven that a Gacha game can find success while not using the standard Hoyoverse “maximum money” formula for gear/weapons. But both also struggle with the fact that they are very rough around the edges and lack in the key details like Story and pacing.
The appeal for me honestly is that it doesn't slap you with absurd FOMO like other gachas. Which ironically makes it a horrid gacha game because once you're done with everything in a patch (factory, building a new character you may have pulled, story etc) there's not much to do to come back to it.
It's overall a pretty great side game to chill with.
It was always kind of paradoxical to me that the FOMO on the big things was small meanwhile the daily grind stuff was abysmal; so if you just want to play the game more, you kinda got punished for it.
I'm a recent player to Endfield and from what i am seeing (correct me someone if wrong) :
- Dupes are worthless, really, the dps gain for maximum dupes for some of the latest damage dealers is up to a max of 25%, which is truly low. Otherwise at max dupe you get a cool glow like in ZZZ with sig equipped.
- Signature weapons are mostly obtainable F2P
- Every char has extremely viable weapons obtainable in some F2P way
- Endgame is non-existant / not much of a hassle enough for people to panic pull
- There's like... no reruns? They seem to have started a rerun only now, it's weird.
But yeah all in all, it's like they don't want the money. Which is a bit worrying, cause i really love the game so far, so i hope it keeps going this way.
People tend to to think if a game doesnt try to be as exploitative as hsr or wuwa with their monetization the game is doing bad. I for one am completely F2P and i have every character except Mifu, 5 sig weapons, p1 Laev, Liino, Ardelia and LR the only problem endfield is facing is being too generous tbh which i dont even mind its a breath of fresh not needing to have at least 2 potentials for a character to be uselful
the dupe situation is weird as hell, every dupe is just numbers go up, they had the oportunity to make arcane dupes make interesting playstyles with her double nature but for all the characters the most interesting dupe is usually the 15% more ult gain...
gonna take ZZZ too as an example where things like miyabi/ yixuan/ jane/ hugo m2 open new playstyles to the character, or harumasa/dialyn m1 which makes makes their playstyles a lot more aproachable.
Well... Arcane already has every playstyle except for ig defense or healing. That's the entire point of her kit. INT mode can be DPS, sub DPS, support, AND/OR enabler already. Then WILL form can be a better Support, and amazing enabler.
It would just be stupid if they, say, locked INT form behind P3 or something. Or locked WILL form's extra Susc over INT form behind potentials, or locked INT form's special increase in Susc duration behind potentials. All of the quality of life is there the moment you get her.
There's really no "more approachable" in her other than just completely changing her kit imo. I guess the only thing they could do is make increase AOE range. (which, she already has a pretty big AOE anyway.)
I'm very happy they don't go that route. Flat DPS increases (character potentials are generally less than 15% while weapon potentials go up to ~25%) just mean you can do content more easily if you have them, but doesn't give you an edge over someone who isn't spending on it.
I think that most people who pull for high potentials either just like the character or really like the character art. (which, both of those things are often corelated anyway.)
Yep, like aside the ult cost reduction one that is always at P4, is not even worth considering going for dupes for most of them, only one so far that sorta did was Gilberta as is QoL bait because it increase the succ radius by 20% and is her first dupe, and thats about it lol
Its mobile revenue no? Who plays Endfield on mobile? Also game is too generous there isn't much incentive to spend ESPECIALLY considering constellations/sequences are just pointless so there is no point in whaling.
Your math is completely off. To make it more clear: If 10% would be from mobile, you don't increase that value by 90% to get the total, you have to add 900%.
So if 1/3 comes from mobile, to have to add 200% of your mobile base value.
So if 6 million is 1/3 of the total revenue, the whole total would be 18 million.
Tbh player retention between pc gamers vs mobile gamers is a genuinely valid question, my guess is that on one hand mobile players prob' are more likely to be the ones jumping from trend to trend the most so thats prob' the population that dropped the most, but on the other hand you probably have more gacha gamers on THE gacha platform which is mobile phones, BUT also who is more likely to pay, a pc player or a mobile player ? Real tough question to know if that 70-30 split has moved and in which actual direction
I'm a Day 1 player, enjoy the game, but still F2P. Unlike the Hoyo games, there's no endgame that makes you feel you have to pull for new units. I didn't pull the supposed "main push" character, and didn't feel like I was left out of content for skipping.
If you do look at what the Hoyo games offer and income patterns, power sells. Endfield doesn't have that, and even though it doesn't help with revenue pvp, it's nice as a player who isn't too interested in the meta talk, constant shilling, etc. of the Hoyo games. I still enjoy Genshin and ZZZ, but I will admit the endgame content of those games are their least enjoyable aspects for me, even if I full clear them.
This is true but fallacious. The most powerful characters consistently do better, we
have years of banner data to support this. This is because whales care about meta and endgame more on average. In other words, most players don't care about meta, but the ones that do spend more. It makes to entice such a lucrative part of the audience. This is basically HSR's entire modern business model.
The "strongest character of the region" factor is probably still in play for even those who don't fully clear. Even if a player isn't fully clearing endgame stuff, it's still easier for a casual player to spend on a unit everyone mentions as very strong, must-pull, etc. The spikes in revenue when such characters come out are massive, so it really can't be all just from the endgame clearing players.
Some feel it's important to make the distinction between whether you pull for a unit because you feel it's meta or you truly love the design etc. The perennial waifu vs meta argument.
People are just not spending on the game and there's little need to. Basically, nearly all the support operators can work multiple teams and it's still possible to beat hard content with timers with operators from 1st and 2nd patches. And no part of a kit is locked behind dupes. Dupes are just numbers. No new interactions whatsoever
The game doesnt feel sweaty at all, limited character doesnt have a locked mechanic, hardest endgame only giving medal reward instead of currency, like hell why do even spends at this point, im stopped buying subscription from last 2 patches (also their gacha algorithm is kind of suck, they make you easily win 50/50 if you stop spending at the right moment)
I stopped playing because their factory system was getting too annoyingly complicated. Also dailies were taking me up to 30 minutes a day if I wanted to do them properly, there was just too much stuff to do every day
Also dailies were taking me up to 30 minutes a day
Thats crazy. People are experiencing 2 different realities with this game. For me dailies is under 1 minute. Log in -> level up 1 character -> level up 1 weapon -> craft 1 gear . Log off.
You could just.. you know copy paste a Kyostinv factory? So much people who don't bother with factory nowadays literally just wait for blueprints, you're not forced to do it yourself.
The only daily that gives pull is the one with activity points and it takes like 1 protocol space to complete, so like 3 minutes including loading screens, what was taking you 30 minutes?
Having to visit 5 friends every day for clue exchange and assists, managing Djiiang dailies, doing stock trading, using sanity, doing 3x deliveries for friends for credits for the credit shop, Wuling's environment thing that I had to take pictures. I think there was something else but I can't remember because it's been months. It used to be 30 minutes, but I stopped picking up rare materials and I think some other things which brought it down to around 20.
Oh, you know what made it take so long? The excessive amount of sanity items they kept giving out, and they had to be used before they expired. The could easily add 5-10 minutes depending on how many were piled up. Not to mention all the events that I stopped caring about but I'd make myself do them for the rewards
We have rough revenue numbers for Endfield, but not player numbers. I hypothesize that Endfield's active player numbers are relatively impressive. However, it's more F2P friendly than the competition, so there's not much reason to spend. My guess is that this chill atmosphere is a deliberate strategy to get more people on board, and once they have enough players they can ramp up things like powercreep and dupe strength to entice people to spend more.
Also, your math is off. 70% rev being from console and PC means they made around 20 mil this month.
The latest MSQ chapter was pretty nice, but after you finish it, the core gameplay loop is still largely the same as it's ever been with the same kind of dry events. People can tolerate that kind of thing for some time, but inevitably there's going to be some attrition as it wears on.
Banner-wise, Liino's pretty polarizing and I suspect a lot of players are waiting to pull Si instead.
Totally just my personal experience, do not take this as anything more than that, when i started endfield i was loving it, and if asked "is endfield good/interesting?" I would still reply "absolutely"
So do i still play it? No. Will i ever play it again? I really do not think so.
Edit: since so many seems to take this the wrong way, when i say "0 chances" i mean that I do not have nearly enough time to grind enough rolls in a single patch. Personally. For me. In my case. I, me, I am the one who personally can't grind enough rolls in a single patch. No, i'm not claiming that the game gives you 0 rolls, like the guy below states
I will start with the tl/dr: if i were to re-download the game right now, i would have 0 rolls, 0 pity, and 0 chances to get enough to reach the amount for the guardanteed, and if i decide to try out my luck and fail, i will be back to having 0 rolls and 0 pity
They do give you a few rolls as a "welcome back" gift, but that's it
You know what's really diabolic about the 50/50? If you win it, you are happy that you got the character. If you lose it and, let's say, quit the game out of frustration, the next time you are tempted to get back you will think "yah know, i have the guaranteed this time"
The reason i stopped playing was that when i started i didn't have too much time, but i was a day one player, then the events starts to roll out and... They either required high level characters (upgrades were story locked) or were in the new region (story locked). So i was a day one player, playing every day, and i was still locked out of events. After a while i got the feeling that i was playing just to chase the rewards in a hurry, and stopped.
The gacha has what i would call a "open world gacha system", where you get rewards for everything you do but they are, on average, very low (1/40) of a roll for opening a chest, something like that). Sure, no problem, but you know what actually is a problem? It doesn't really work with a pity system that doesn't carry over to the next banner: having a guaranteed at 120 pulls and seeing me getting 1/50 of a pull from opening a chest makes it feel worthless in the context that you either manage to find the character or they are wasted
I could go on, but the rant was long enough and, quite literally, just my opinion
Your claims about the gacha income are incorrect and I'll just link the bookkeeping thread (the default position counts only non-expiring pulls, the free pulls that are awarded every banner reduce the guarantee to effective 110, and then there are dossiers and such):
There are plenty of pulls from permanent content that you didn't complete.
There is also a returnee event with an extra 5 pulls on top of all that (and event content of the patch you returned at)
If you expect the game to just give you a guarantee on login the day you return without doing anything (and you blasted all your pulls to 0 before you quit for... reasons?) idk what to tell you.
There is also a returnee event with an extra 5 pulls on top of all that
Yeah, i also wrote that dude...
and event content of the patch you returned at
Yeah, in a region i haven't unlocked. And yes, i can jump start it, but like i also wrote, when i feel like i'm playing to chase rewards (in this case jump starting the new region), i would rather not play
you expect the game to just give you a guarantee on login the day you return without doing anything
Oh sorry you were trolling, my bad, because if you honestly read my comment and assumed that this is what i meant, boi oh boi
and you blasted all your pulls to 0 before you quit
Yeah, i tried to find a character i wanted in a gacha, crazy idea, right? I know it's so outlandish that's it's hard to image, but please, try
for... reasons?)
I literally wrote them down, but at this point this is not surprising
Your claims about the gacha income are incorrect
Did i make any? Oh yeah the one you blatantly ignored and told me about despite me already writing it down, my bad
and I'll just link the bookkeeping thread
Ok?
Dude, it's not rocket science, i literally wrote down (this is the 4th time i'm saying this) that i clearly did not have as much time to play as much as the game expected me to. I started to lag behind the events almost immediatly.
Nobody is saying that "there are no pulls" or "no permanent rewards", just that there is a huge difference between knowing that whatever currency you manage to find will go towards your next character and knowing that you either rack up 65/80 pulls in a single patch or you can basically forget to even chance the 50/50
If i see a cool character that i want and decide to come back for them, i would have to to grind out 120 pulls, let's assume for the sake argument that between login bonuses and welcome back gifts i get 20 rolls, that's still 100 more to grind. Did i mention that i'm often locked out from events and clearly do not have enough time to play as i'm expected to? Oh yeah, just 3 times
Edit: by the way, i have 29 hours into this game, not 2 or 3, if you are thinking that i quit immediatly or something like that
"So what's would be the difference with any other game??" In a game like genshin, wuwa and so on, i could still try my luck, and if i fail, i will be so much closer next time. Here you get nothing. It's that simple
There is also an outflow of players. I left Endfield after version 1.2 and the death of Nefarith. I know the plot, but I don't want to go back. Why else would you make such a beautiful antagonist in a game where they sell girl characters? Well, these are my personal tastes, but I'm sure there are quite a lot of people like me.
Well, I wrote: I know the plot. I know I'm alive. But I was leaving back then, in version 1.2. I don't see anything surprising here, everyone has different tastes and goals. I'm not interested in typical characters from a typical anime, I'm sick of it already, I've reviewed and replayed them. Just like I'm not interested in endgame. People are different.
oh noes, an original new character can't beat a limited alter of beloved year 0 and busted character.. 29million of AK was carried by cn by 19mil and minus that AKE global vs AK without CN is just 3mil vs 4 mil mobile only. I'm not saying which game is better, but at least read the data and find the context before framing an opinion man.
A lot of those vids are still used as ads, so they're a net loss.
Also, your math is weird. Even if they have 1.5k employees on the game, with all the marketing we've seen this month, they'd need what? $15-20 mil a month to break even?
By your estimate, with mobile being 30%, they'd be clear of that even in this slow month... though I don't know how much they pay in taxes or how much the even booths cost.
All those views are paid by the way, or they used the posts/videos on ads so they rack them up.
Endfield is just not fun enough or thought out enough to beat the original, the units don't feel unique at all, the combat is just a watered down version of Dragon's Age, the unit's aesthetics are also super plain.
They need to up their game and rework entire combat system and make actual unique units with better aesthetics, there's really nothing going on with this game except love for the devs of Arknights and it can't carry the game forever.
I am starting to feel like Endfield is the equivalent of the dollar fifty hotdog in Costco. The kind that's popular yet one that the shops are willing to sell even at a loss. XD
They are definitely still pretty far from running at a loss, but yeah, its a pretty generous game (considering that everything with actual rewards can be completed by non-optimized teams and characters) for how well made it is (in terms of design quality, optimization, etc). As long as 1.4's story quality is indicative of future story quality, Ill definitely keep playing
You also have to consider the fact that dupes are basically worthless unless you just want them. The game gives enough for a soft pity each patch and there's just a lack of incentive to realistically pull.
It helps that the game is just relatively bad at being a gacha game in how there's so little FOMO.
First of all, the gacha system is fine, the rates average out to around that of other 3d gachas. Second of all, you cant look at the gacha system in isolation, with endfield you need to consider that dupes dont do much, and there is alot less pressure to pull for new characters as there isnt any content (with actual rewards) which requires highly optimized teams
Its generous enough to give you enough pulls for a soft pity. That is....sixty pulls. May take til the last week of a banner to do and you may need to buy a monthly pass and a battlepass but yes
People forget about the biggest factor when it comes to people spending money, which is constelations. Arknights has 0 incentive to spend for cons because they are almost a non factor.
Do these graphs use Console and PC? Always tought a large portion of these AAA revenue comes from Console, like I've seen Hoyo repeatedly getting awards from Playstation cause of their revenue there, and with Endfield being marketed for Factory gamers, I assume a large portion of revenue is on PC at least
Mobile only, for CN they don't even have android and use ios to estimate.
Another data point really would be steam release of AKE, WuWa has peak of 50k and an average of around 10k playing at any time and breaks into top steam sales every patch.
- no cosmetics - there is nothing to spend on besides packs
- limited grind - there is little reason to buy the packs since the grind is very limited and they shower you with sanity
- you get a decent amountof pulls even as f2p and light spenders (monthly+bp) have almost all weapons and characters (93% for characters, around 80% for weapons)
This is like comparing the sales of a Pokémon game to a Fire Emblem game.
396
u/Primogeniture116 7h ago
Can't believe I am using this picture in this context