Math???

[u/ClarksCrossing]

I am changing my mind last minute on math and got to wondering... there was a math that keeps getting recommended that I'm told is similar to the old Saxxon Math (not that I'd know what that is, as we haven't used it), but is Christian-based. Does anyone remember what this math is called?

Also, how does one make math religious? I am highly perplexed by this. Are we algebraically solving for number of mangers? lol

ETA 1: While we attend church, we're not looking for a Christian-based math, so I'm wondering if we can overlook the faith portion of the curriculum. But I'm mostly perplexed how one can make something like math bible-based in the first place. Science I can see, but math?

ETA 2: I think it was Shormann Math that was recommended to me that's religious. How are they making math religious?

[u/Jenjoy14]

Math teacher here, and the “number of managers” took me out

But seriously, I work with homeschool students from elementary through high school, and I’ve learned that the “Christian” part of a math curriculum is usually more about the worldview they weave into the lessons than changing the actual math. We are still solving for x.

For Shormann specifically, they connect things like mathematical order, patterns, history, etc. back to God and creation. From what I’ve seen, you can overlook a lot of that if it isn't what you're looking for.

For me, I wouldn't choose or eliminate a math curriculum just because it's labeled Christian. I'd look more at how it teaches the math and whether that matches how your child learns. I've worked with kids using all kinds of curricula, and sometimes a perfectly good program is just not a good fit for that particular kid.

That's one of the biggest things homeschooling has reinforced for me: meet the child where they are, not where the curriculum says they should be.

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Jenjoy14]

That makes sense. I had never heard of a Christian math until we began this homeschooling journey, so I couldn't wrap my head around what that would look like. I appreciate your feedback. I think we're deciding between ThinkWell and AoPs, but I've changed my mind so many times it's not funny.

He's a rising 7th grader who completed 7th grade math last year in public school. If he'd had remaining in school, he'd be beginning Integrated Algebra 1 (which includes 1/2 of geometry). He loves math and is a future STEM major, he needs a lesson he can do on his own since I'm a single mom. He thrived with Zearn, but it only goes up to pre-algebra. So we're on the hunt for a Zearn replacement (video lessons taught by teachers with adaptive online problems that give him corrections as he goes so he's not repeating mistakes).

[u/Jenjoy14 → u/ClarksCrossing]

Ohhh okay, knowing all of this now, I can see why you're going back and forth. You actually have a good problem to have because he loves math AND he's already ahead.

Based on what you said he liked about Zearn, I would probably lean toward Thinkwell. The video lesson + practice + immediate feedback sounds a lot closer to what already works for him, especially since you need him to work pretty independently.

I like AoPS too, especially for a kid who's into math and possibly headed toward STEM, but it's definitely a different style. It's more about really digging into problems and figuring things out, so I think it depends on whether he enjoys that kind of challenge.

I also wouldn't worry too much about the grade level listed on the program. Since he's already completed 7th grade math, I'd placement test him and go from there.

And honestly, changing your mind 15 times about homeschool curriculum might just be part of the initiation process.

Even with my own students, I might start everybody on one program and then realize a few weeks in that it isn't the best fit for a particular student. I'll switch things around based on what they need academically AND how they learn best.

That's one of the freedoms we have with homeschooling. You don't have to pick the “perfect” curriculum right now and be married to it for the entire year. Sometimes you don't know what works until you actually see the kid working in it.

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Jenjoy14]

Thank you for your thoughts! I am so glad to hear you say that because I just bought Thinkwell Honors Algebra 1 last night. Thinkwell doesn't offer Integrated Algebra, so we'll need to begin Geometry partway through this school year or this summer so he can do Algebra II next year, but we'll worry about that problem when we get there.

I don't have the budget this school year for multiple curriculums (because we weren't even sure we were doing this until a week ago), so I was hoping to get it close to right the first time. Thanks to the help of this sub, I think we might have gotten it right so far.

English -- I bought EIW 7 and then he'll do EIW 9, per the EIW lady (she said 8 is covered in 9).

Health -- We're using CK-12 which is free and looks pretty solid.

Greek -- Ellinopoula then The Greek Online School.

Science -- For 8th grade (chem) we're using ACS, but for 7th grade (bio), I think we're using Khan Academy.

History -- I can't even recall any more. lol I think we were recommended OER. I have put the least effort into this.

If you have any thoughts on these, I'm all ears.

[u/KiwiAppropriate8003]

I have seen some people say that there are word problems or stories that go along with the math that is biblical. I think that's how some math curriculum is made to be religious.

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/KiwiAppropriate8003]

Ahhhh, that makes sense. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

[u/ChaiAndLeggings]

We use BJU Press and there are a few times there are things like "I can use math to help me give others a fair share." Or they multiply to find the number of chairs needed for a church event. Or add together how many sides are brought to a potluck. If a missionary is fixing a house, how many nails does he need? Overall biblical topics are mostly seen in word problems. There are times where things like "the number 7 is the number of days of creation" or "Sunday is the day most people go to church" are statements used to help teach about numbers or days of the week.

We use it because it works well for our child, but we have also used Khan Academy, IXL, and Beast Academy too.

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/ChaiAndLeggings]

Ah, okay. That makes total sense. I am not sure my son would be down with that but would tolerate it if it's the best math program, I suppose. I think Beast Academy only goes through middle school, is that right? He's beginning Integrated Algebra 1.

[u/TexCali14 → u/ClarksCrossing]

After Beast Academy, it’s called Art of Problem Solving. 

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/TexCali14]

Ah okay, I forgot they're the same thing. Thanks!

[u/Any-Habit7814]

I (also christian) was very turned off by "God's light in mathematics" but someone in this sub convinced me to give Christian Light education math a try and it was great fit. I've seen some Christian curriculum that try to turn everything into a Sunday school lesson but some where it's just casual like a general vibe 

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Any-Habit7814]

Thank you. My son has ADHD, so I see that distracting him, so now that I understand how it's worked in, it seems like not a good fit for us.

[u/Affectionate-Crow605]

CLE Math (Christian Light Education) is often recommended as being more rigorous than Saxon but still spiral, if that's what you're looking for. I'm an atheist and had no issue using their math. I wouldn't touch their history or science with a ten foot pole.

I used Singapore Primary Mathematics Standards Edition with all my kids. It was excellent. After 5th grade level, we did Art of Problem Solving Prealgebra.

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Affectionate-Crow605]

Thanks for the information. We keep flip flopping but are now deciding between Thinkwell and AoPS... I think. lol

I'm new to homeschooling and am just so nervous to pick the wrong curriculum and set him back, as he's doing so well in math and is a future STEM major, so picking the right math is important.

He's beginning 7th grade but completed 7th grade math last year (but his public school wasn't the greatest). So, I'm going to test him today and decide which level math he should be in and bite the bullet on a curriculum. Eeek.

[u/Hobbit_Adventures_08 → u/ClarksCrossing]

Do a sample of each and see which your kid prefers. It is what I did when trying to decide between the two. If they get a say in which one, it tends to go better. My kid is also very STEM heavy. 

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Hobbit_Adventures_08]

When we looked at AoPs, unless I was in the wrong place, it seemed *very* word problem heavy. If AoPs is indeed word problems, I don't want to start his homeschool experience there and possibly frustrate him. So maybe by process of elimination that leaves ThinkWell. I wish Zearn went through high school, as he did so well with that for elem. and middle school to challenge himself after public school.

[u/Hobbit_Adventures_08 → u/ClarksCrossing]

You were in the right place. AOPS is great for kids who like the deep thinking and conceptual concepts. It really is geared towards kids who genuinely like math and want to do math competitions. With lots of word problems that try to make you think harder and about it in a different way. I absolutely loved it as an option. My kid had no interest in doing that sort of math. She is very straightforward and logical. She needed straightforward math. She looked at the textbook for AOPS and said nope. So I found a math program that is still challenging but is more straightforward math, Thinkwell. They have a free trial period where your son can try it out for a few weeks to see if it works for him. 

There are endless options but it gets too overwhelming if you don't just say f it and try something. I suggest just trying it and if it doesn't work for the 2 week trial, then find another. 

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Hobbit_Adventures_08]

Thank you! I'll do that. :)

I was looking at the ThinkWell sale on HomeSchool Buyers Club and was wondering why it will end, assuming it might be today, since EIW's sale ends today, too (hence, the pressure to feel like I need to pick the right one asap before sales end).

Have you tried Mr. D's? I wonder how it stacks up, but we're leaning towards ThinkWell. If I can't decide by tonight, we'll do ThinkWell.

[u/Hobbit_Adventures_08 → u/ClarksCrossing]

I didn't try Mr. D's. I didn't want to get myself down a rabbit hole of math curriculum once I found something that worked. 

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Hobbit_Adventures_08]

lol Same. I think we're going with Thinkwell. It seems to be a good fit. Thank you!

[u/TexCali14 → u/Affectionate-Crow605]

We are looking at a similar math sequence as you. I was wondering why you chose to keep with SPM instead of Beast Academy by AOP for elementary? We are finishing up kinder SPM and I’m trying to figure out if I should switch to all AOP for consistence or keep SPM? SPM was great for kinder. 

[u/Affectionate-Crow605 → u/TexCali14]

Beast Academy wasn't finished yet when my kids were elementary. 😉 I did use level 3, the first one to come out.

[u/ConsequenceNo8197]

I think it can show up in word problems especially. The only example I have personally seen is from Life of Fred. I checked it out from the library because it was highly recommended at that time (10 years ago lol) and people swore that it wasn't really religious. But it was definitely in there. I know there was an example about number sets and there was something about there being one God. Also I think there were references to Sunday being the sabbath/start of the week something like that. Since then I've stuck to secular only curriculum. ;) There are more choices now than there were just a few years ago.

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/ConsequenceNo8197]

Yeah, I am not sure that would work for my son. Thank you for explaining it.

[u/LoveMercyWalkHumbly]

I've seen CLE described as "Saxon in workbook format". It's what I've used since 2020 after bouncing around between several other options. They make it Christian by saying things like "Mary was so excited. The Lord had just blessed her family with another baby! This made five brothers for Mary and her 2 sisters. How many children are in the family?" Or "John memorized 5 Bible verses last month and 3 this month. How many Bible verses did he memorize?" You could just change that to "poems" if you want.  Or "Samuel rode his bike 3 miles to Sunshine Christian School..." 

Edit : I remembered in the first book there's a countdown song about Jesus' return to help teach counting down from 10. 

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/LoveMercyWalkHumbly]

Thank you.

[u/L_Avion_Rose]

I suspect they were talking about Christian Light Education.

If you were looking at curricula more broadly, I'd encourage you to read up on the differences between conceptual vs procedural curricula, and mastery vs spiral curricula. However, it sounds like both of the curricula you are considering fall on the mastery and conceptual side of the spectrum, with AOPS possibly being further along the conceptual axis.

Both Thinkwell and AOPS are great options. One thing I'd keep in mind is that AOPS is more advanced than even most STEM majors need. Mathy school students use their courses to prepare for competitions. I would only go with AOPS is your son is really passionate about maths.

If you do go with Thinkwell and your son needs a review of the 7th-grade material, consider using their Pre-Algebra curriculum. It combines 7th and 8th-grade material, making it a good choice for advanced students as well as those needing additional review before moving on to Algebra I.

All the best 😊

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/L_Avion_Rose]

Thank you! I just gave him the Mathnasium quizzes and he passed the Algebra Readiness and needed some help with the 6th grade math as it was so long ago. So I'll use a free tool to remind him of the old math then begin the paid Integrated Algebra 1. It seems Thinkwell is a solid curriculum for us right now. Thank you for your help!

[u/bibliovortex]

I think you are describing Shormann Math, based on your description.

I would maybe look for discussion or reviews on the old Well-Trained Mind forums - there is a crazy amount of information buried in there from multiple perspectives, on nearly anything you can think of. What I have heard basically sounded like the teacher on the videos has a tendency to moralize about students doing their work, not cheating, etc. However, there might be some additional element to it beyond that. I haven't used it personally and don't intend to (the comparison to Saxon is not a favorable thing from my perspective, Saxon tends to be very heavy on "drill and kill").

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/bibliovortex]

Oh, yeah, drill and kill is not a method that would work well for my son either. Thank you for the information! It sounds like Thinkwell is the best option for us right now.

[u/soap---poisoning]

My three kids used Shormann Math starting with pre-algebra through precalculus. It is similar to Saxon in a lot of ways, and it prepared my kids well for the math on college entrance exams.

As far as I could tell, the Christian element was an occasional faith-related comment by Dr. Shormann in his videos.

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/soap---poisoning]

Thank you for explaining.

[u/Dependent-Suspect657]

Lol christian math. You people never cease to amaze

[u/ClarksCrossing → u/Dependent-Suspect657]

"You people." Excuse me, I didn't create it, I only asked about it. Not sure why you're being rude. Here is just one example. If you don't like it, take it up with them. https://classicalconversations.com/blog/christian-math-curriculum-the-math-map/