r/interesting • u/Wonderfulhumanss • 4d ago

SOCIETY The Zammit family refused to sell their five acre property as an entire Sydney suburb was built around them

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u/Mental-Currency-4494 4d ago

In Utah they'd get a $10,000 water bill, unless they grew alfalfa or made it a golf course, then they'd get take breaks and public funding.

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u/desertvision 4d ago

And, you get arrested if you collect your rain runoff. It's fucked around here in a lot of ways.

Also, don't forget that water is readily available here for data centers used to spy on you.

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u/Bless_u-babe 4d ago

That’s bizarre. Why is collecting rainwater illegal? That’s like an anti environmental move.

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u/Lazy-Meal-6156 4d ago

Idk where they live but it’s legal in all 50 states in the US, some states just have restrictions or you need a permit. Utah you need a permit and can collect 2500 gallons a year.

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u/Assika126 4d ago

We actually get breaks on our sewer bills if we collect rainwater here where I live

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u/ToastSpangler 4d ago

gonna guess you live somewhere wet and not in a desert though

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u/Assika126 4d ago

Yah land of 10,000 lakes

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u/MSter_official 1d ago

O i remember hearing that on jet lag the other day, isn't it 11000 something lakes?

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u/Assika126 22h ago

It is (depending on your definition of “lake”)! We just call it 10k because it’s easier

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u/Either_Part_1032 4d ago

Unfortunately we don’t even get that much rain anymore.

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u/GhostPirateCaptain 3d ago

why would you need a permit or permission to collect RAIN WATER though ?!?!

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u/gamebus1 1d ago

Because they can't charge you for sunlight yet !

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u/Bless_u-babe 4d ago

That makes more sense. Metering water either through capture of rain collection or use via delivery trough the pipes in areas where water is a scarce resource would seem practical. Then you would actually know whether rain capture was affecting evaporation volume.

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u/Exact_Risk_6947 1d ago

There was literally just a man in Georgia who went to jail for collecting rain water.

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u/Lazy-Meal-6156 1d ago

Probably because he did it illegally... Some states have restrictions like the comment you responded to states.

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u/Exact_Risk_6947 1d ago

Then it’s not legal in all 50 states. It’s illegal unless authorized.

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u/avidpenguinwatcher 18h ago

That seems like the most unenforceable law ever.

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u/a_code_mage 4d ago

Firstly it’s not true. You can collect a certain amount of rainwater in Utah, and after a certain threshold you need a permit.
But it’s actually to protect the environment. In western states, a lot of rivers are fed into from rainwater runoff. If too many people do it and it isn’t accounted for, it can potentially reduce or dry up river water.

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u/Certain-Shine2717 4d ago

Because we release chemicals into the sky and if that isn’t filtered out and you use it to grow food you will get cancer and die

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u/Bless_u-babe 4d ago

When water evaporates it leaves everything in it, behind. The danger lies in the concentration of discarded chemicals in the ground that leaches back into the water when it rains.

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u/Certain-Shine2717 4d ago

Yes and then it goes into the sky and form clouds where the water particles combine with debris (the chemicals) and become too heavy to be suspended in the air so they fall down (rain)

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u/Bless_u-babe 3d ago

lol. You need to take science 10 over again.

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u/Certain-Shine2717 2d ago

Uh I teach science, not sure what you’re on about but that’s how it works kiddo…

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u/Foreign-Engine8678 4d ago

So that companies don't do it. Capitalist would collect all that water even if it damages enviroment. So its better to be too strict

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u/Bless_u-babe 4d ago

Strict metering of rain collection vats and the water delivered through civic source via the pipes absolutely ends the argument. It’s fair and scientific.

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u/cure4boneitis 4d ago

why would you require meters on rain collection vats and new piping instead of something simple like only allowing it for properties zoned as single family residencies?

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u/Bless_u-babe 4d ago

Wouldn’t a multi family building be liable to waste water as much as a single family? It’s more about the amount collected versus the amount Mother Nature can renew. If we keep track of this in water scarce areas the data will tell us what we need to do. Perhaps I didn’t understand your question completely?

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u/cure4boneitis 4d ago

I have no idea who would waste more or less water. I am saying that just allowing certain types of properties to collect rain water would be a LOT easier (and cheaper) than requiring meters and piping back to some central collection

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u/Bless_u-babe 3d ago

The argument is that you have no way of knowing whether collected water is equaling the rainfall renewal without measurements. If all the collected water is treated after use when it’s discarded, metering would not be necessary. I guess it depends on which is more expensive, building and maintaining a water treatment plant or installing meters. Currently the population in North Vancouver will be charged $590 per year for the next 30 years to pay for their waste water treatment plant.

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u/cure4boneitis 2d ago

I have no idea what you are talking about

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u/desertvision 4d ago

I think it's actually more about the problem that most people don't know what they are doing, giving rise to problems like mosquitos, odor, and disease. Imagine your redneck neighbor with a moss filled, stinky, mosquito habitat next door. Lol

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u/vpeshitclothing 4d ago

AFAI K it's called "water rights". Farmers and other industries get the rights to the rain water first. Something something, trickle down economics

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u/ApprehensiveGrand531 4d ago

It's so that big corporations can't take ridiculous amounts meant to replenish water supply. As has happened in the past. And so lay people are caught in the middle

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u/hazelbear33 3d ago

Because the rainwater needs to be able to recharge aquifers/rivers/streams/creeks in drought-stricken areas. IIRC you can collect a certain amount, but the laws are supposed to prevent like commercial harvesting.

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u/Sleazyridr 3d ago

The justification is that the rainwater needs to make it's way into rivers so that keep flowing. It's very dependent on the local conditions, some places it's justified.

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u/EnlightenedCorncob 1d ago

The reason that I heard, that makes the most sense to me, that if it was legal, corporations would build enormous collection facilities that would deprive the rain from ever reaching the groundwater to replenish it.

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u/Tundur 4d ago

I mean it's literally in the desert, water has to be predictable and rationed. If everyone starts collecting their runoff, the municipal water supply shrivels up, and that's very bad

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u/Ryuko_the_red 4d ago

You think that 2 million people will put up barrels? Given that looking up the population of the state that is the absolute maximum number of homeowners reasonably able to put up barrels. Probably a tenth of them are in hoa's. So that's no go. I pretty sure their data centers slurp more water than the humans out there. Given that it's a nsa data center Hotspot...

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u/LordDragonus 3d ago

no... they think one company will put up 10 million barrels and try to sell the collected water back to the people at a premium.

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u/Rebelius 4d ago

Why is collecting rainwater a no go in a hoa? We just bury the rainwater cisterns under the lawn and direct everything from the roof into them. Most people just use it for the outdoor taps, but you can have it connected to the toilets and washing machine.

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u/Ryuko_the_red 4d ago

Because hoa's r stoopid

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u/desertvision 4d ago

You have a little bit of an uninformed opinion. You think the water that runs off the roof, into the gutter, down the storm drain, into the canal, and into the lake at the bottom is then used as municipal water? Ok buddy.

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u/elebrin 4d ago

No, it runs off the roof, down your gutters, and spills out about 20 or 30 feet from your house. Then, it's absorbed by the ground after being filtered through the lower layers of soil and sand. That water then joins the water table.

Lakes are a part of the same system. They are depressions where the surface of the land is lower than the water table.

So, your rainwater isn't flowing into the lake, but it's flowing essentially into permeable aquifer that is adjacent to the lake. Interestingly, all your urine and shower water and the water you use for your garden all flow back into that same aquifer, along with the rain water. It's literally filtered by the ground, through miles of clay and sand, before it's pumped back out and reused.

If you live somewhere with well and septic, then you are literally drinking your own shower water and piss and everything else you put down the toilet. Of course, it's going through a massive filter first.

The total amount of water itself doesn't matter nearly as much as how quickly it can be recycled by the landscape and how quickly the local population is drawing on it.

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u/tdelamay 4d ago

Water that's connected in a water barrel doesn't magically disappear. The water is just used later and eventually returns to the ground.

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u/elebrin 4d ago

Very true, it only becomes in a problem in areas where there is a limited supply, when people collect and horde that water instead of using it and returning it to nature. If you are in a desert and you just sort of start collecting water in giant reservoirs (not the pond style ones, but like those plastic boxes that farms use), and you don't use it and just... hold on to it, taking it out of the ecosystem and out of the water table, the water table will drop a bit. You probably can't hold enough water to make a real difference in, say, the Great Lakes region but if you are in Arizona or Nevada, you probably can.

Worse still, holding water in containers like that can result in the water being fouled. If the containers are plastic, then you are introducing more microplastics that everyone has to contend with being in their water now.

And not every chemical is filtered out by the ground - Famously, Dioxin isn't, and that's been an ongoing issue in many communities around the US. Overuse of fertilizer, herbicides, and pesticides can become a similar problem.

All of these things are fine in a homesteading situation in an area with a good water supply. On the other hand, if you live in a suburban style "city" where everyone has detached single family homes, and everyone has their own reservoir that they horde water in, and then a data center goes in and pollutes what's left that's going to be bad news for everyone.

The sensible thing to do is have storage and rate limits, then regularly test the water supply to ensure it's healthy and contaminants are getting filtered to acceptable levels. And that's largely what American communities do, except corporate interests have tons of money and are able to change up the regulation around acceptable levels of contaminants and get exceptions to rate limits and otherwise use their money to get around pretty much anything, often because these small to midsized towns will do ANYTHING for a company to come in and add jobs to the local economy and bring money into the town.

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u/desertvision 4d ago

I get your point. But, how many hundreds of years before that rainwater molecule hits an active well? Wells are dug deep to avoid that.

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u/Tundur 4d ago edited 4d ago

Not necessarily as drinking water, but as agricultural and industrial inputs, absolutely. There's no need to be condescending, we're all god's children.

Which is all besides the point because Utah does actually allow rainwater collection.

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u/SwigglesBacon 4d ago

God doesn’t exist, we are our mothers children

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u/desertvision 4d ago

Sorry, didn't mean to be condescending.

Some municipalities have allowed some collection after public outcry. Most don't.

I think the best argument for not collecting rain water is the varied level of expertise of homeowners. Done poorly it can be a real mess with mosquitos, odor, and disease.

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u/Lazy-Meal-6156 4d ago

Where do you live that you would get arrested?

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u/caydjj 4d ago

Something’s wrong with your water bill. In my Utah town, we pay $0.10 per 1000 gallons. Even if you watered a ton and used a million gallons in a month, that would still only be $100

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u/Bless_u-babe 4d ago

Enjoy it now. The times , they are achangin’

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u/LucianAMD 4d ago

Where the fuck do you live? I've lived in Utah my whole life and have never had a bill that cheap. My .1 acre of secondary cost me roughly $20. At 5 acres that's a $1000. And that is me currently watering on drought restrictions

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u/MoranthMunitions 4d ago

What proportion of your water usage is gardening vs showers, laundry etc? Per land area they're using a lot less active water

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u/LucianAMD 4d ago

Utah doesn't use the same water for showers, laundry, etc. that you use for  outdoor use. Secondary/irrigation water is a different bill rate.

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u/Unlikely-Rabbit948 4d ago

Didn't Utah just approve the largest data center in the world.

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u/Purple-Wolverine4793 4d ago

yep, with more to come!

though, it seems the data centers use a more efficient closed loop system, which is preferable.

the main water issues definitely stem from the alfalfa farming. if we used the alfalfa instead of shipping overseas it would be better, but we waste water on crops we don’t even use.

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u/2011StevenS 4d ago

*Cries in Coloradan draught restrictions*

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u/blueberrysteven 4d ago

That sounds really off. That would be one of the absolute cheapest water rates I have ever heard of, and I can't find a single water rate tier online for any Utah city near $0.10 per 1000, especially as a flat rate. You may have a misplaced decimal.

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u/Faesarn 4d ago

$0.10 for 1000 gallons? Damn. In France I pay 7€ for 1000L (so like 260gallons). How do they maintain infrastructure with such cheap prices?

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u/stefek132 4d ago

Thats the neat part - they don’t :D

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u/one_dead_turtle 4d ago

Where I am in Canada it's a flat rate of $900 a year per household for water, sewage, and garbage and recycling pickup all rolled into one. Council was talking about getting water meters but decided it was too expensive to make it worth it 

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u/Faesarn 4d ago

If it's all included it's OK I guess. Garbage for us is saparate. 5€ / person / month subscription to the collecting service then 0.45€ per kg of trash. With young kids (diapers) and cats (litter) it gets expensive real quick. I think I pay around 700€ per year for water and 760€ for garbage. It's getting more expensive every year.

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u/Esava 4d ago

In Germany it's usually about 4 to 4.50€ per 1m³ (1000L). Roughly half of that is the waster water fee. So if one waters a garden a TON it can make sense to get a 2nd water meter for that installed and one won't have to pay the waste water fee for that part.

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u/Terrh 4d ago

I pay about $1 CAD per 1000L here. They maintain the infrastructure just fine.

There's a separate fee on the bill for that and OP probably pays that too.

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u/EthanielRain 4d ago

Theyre lying/mistaken

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u/TheFallingWhale 4d ago

I call B's I live next to a great lake and water is $.03 per gallon 

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u/EternalNewCarSmell 4d ago

That is the cheapest water bill I've ever heard of in my entire life.

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u/cjsv7657 4d ago

Water is cheap. Sewer isn't.

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u/Mental-Currency-4494 4d ago

I was being hyperbolic. And yeah. It's more expensive in SLC.

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u/llamafromhell1324 4d ago

I hope it a take 5 break.

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u/Lycosskippy 4d ago

Why on earth would they get charged $10k?

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u/Simplicius_the_Slow 1d ago

Utah is built different in a number of ways....

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u/Solid-Soup3891 4d ago

Yea but Americans are morons

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u/Mental-Currency-4494 4d ago

The ones who vote conservative, absolutely.