r/learnprogramming 12h ago

Topic Do people not write code anymore these days?

I've been working at my cousin's company for a month and a half. The business provides chatbot services, builds chatbots, CRM systems, landing pages, and everything else a company with a website needs. I work on the technical side and provide support. Since it’s a relatively new company, we already have several clients: an auto parts distributor, a real estate agency, a cosmetic clinic, and a restaurant. But so far, I haven’t written a single line of code—we do everything with the Cursor agent. I just give it instructions, and it takes care of the rest. The “most difficult” thing I’ve done is securing an e-commerce site with Cloudflare. I want to learn programming well, since I’m a computer science student (seventh semester), and I was taking a Java course, but at the same time, I want to know if it’s actually necessary to be a skilled programmer these days, or if most companies operate this way nowadays.

69 Upvotes

195 comments sorted by

225

u/hrm 11h ago

Talking to my friends in the industry it is everything from ”don’t even look at code anymore” to ”we don’t trust ai for anything”. It is very early days yet.

But everyone of them and their collegues can write advanced software by hand if they have to.

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u/rjcarr 10h ago

Yeah, I have a mid-30s buddy that says he hasn't written any code in like 18 months. I don't know if he means literally zero code, but I trust that he's not exaggerating that much.

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u/le_fuzz 10h ago

I’ve written close to zero code this year. Sometimes I do it for fun and to prove to myself that I can. Work at a FAANG.

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u/TheRealChizz 9h ago

How low level do you write the prompts? I guess I’m asking how long you spend scoping out the task or prompt before giving it to the LLM to implement?

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u/le_fuzz 9h ago

I basically try to make the prompts as simple as possible while providing enough info (or where to get the info). If I see Claude struggling or getting into loops I might try restarting with a different prompt / steer it to a different approach.

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u/EliSka93 7h ago

Not gonna lie, that sounds soul crushingly boring

9

u/No-Entrepreneur-5099 6h ago

You could spice things up by buying one of those 57" monitors and running 6 claude terminals side by side.

That way you can have no feeling left in your body by 4pm.

2

u/johnnybgooderer 1h ago

I thought that was how normal programming by hand is/was.

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u/le_fuzz 7h ago

It lets you get stuff done faster which is cool. It also fills you with a sort of existential dread to see the models become more and more capable.

13

u/blurtstrennan 7h ago

Couldn't relate more to this! but I kind of compare it to a robot lawnmower. That little guy works well on a square lawn with uniform edges. But throw in a rock garden or some sort of other complexity and your edges are going to look a little frayed if you trust it completely. I basically prompt the lawn robot and then walk around the lawn and check the spots it missed and tidy those up with other little prompts. But I still feel the dread

6

u/Tjgoodwiniv 6h ago

Does this genuinely speed you up? Or are you just spending your time differently? 

I'm not a developer, so I'm less efficient, but I find 90% of my time is spent tweaking instructions for the LLM.

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u/le_fuzz 6h ago

Definitely increases productivity. Something that maybe would have taken me a month to write with proper testing I can iterate on in like a week.

1

u/diimitra 3h ago

What people do with all the time they save ? Are we flying already? I can't understand where all this is going :x

2

u/AiexReddit 1h ago edited 1h ago

Can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's "more work".

I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way, it's kind of exciting to do so much in so little time, but you can feel burnout looming on the horizon, so I'm aware and trying to be mindful.

If your next question is "what work do you do after your work is done" then my answer to that is actually "all the stuff I've always wanted to do we never were able to prioritize".

You know that classic software engineering problem of "never prioritizing tech debt" and having to find places to fit it in piecemeal?

You can actually do the major architectural refactors now that you've always imagined doing if the company and feature machine would just stop moving for a few months.

You still gotta play politics to get approvals and you gotta know how to use the beefy models and build tests and guardrails to do large scale refactors with confidence but.... it's easier now to actually do it that I've ever seen in my 20 year career.

Bonus points is that when your company and teams aren't getting the warp speed they were hoping for out of AI because it gets tangled up in your existing technical debt and falls flat on its face, you can use "this work will supercharge our company's AI workflows" as leverage to get official buy-in for doing that work, it's primetime for "use AI as currency to do what I've always wanted to do with our product" :D

The secret sauce here is using AI to "do the stuff you already know how to do, faster"

I still spend way too much time each day reviewing and blocking PRs from devs on other teams (and occasionally my own team) who use AI to "do stuff they wouldn't have the first clue how to do without it"

1

u/johnnybgooderer 1h ago

I find that if it can't do it right the first time, then it won't figure it out. If it writes some code like spaghetti, then even strong algorithmic hints won't help.

That said I find it great at duplicating patterns that are already established in the codebase. It's great at boilerplate. It makes dtos and dbos and domain objects for me without any work on my part.

I find that I get the best results by anticipating what AI will do well and where it will fail and making the decision early to cut over to manual. Because when AI is struggling, it takes a long time to prod it to get the code into an acceptable state. So long that it negates all the savings I've gained from how fast AI completes the boring parts.

So now I get to write interesting code and claude spews out the boilerplate and duplicated patterns.

u/le_fuzz 56m ago

Are you using Opus? I used to have the same approach but recently I’ve found Opus 5 to be doing pretty well at all coding. I’m just architecting and connecting services. But yeah once the context gets jumbled up with bad reasoning you need to just ditch.

3

u/FlatProtrusion 3h ago

Wow, how is the review process like for all your full ai written code? Do you go thru pull requests with your other colleagues line by line? Or do you just feed the commits to an ai code review then just review the summary?

And how do you manage the amount and speed of code ai generates? There is a tradeoff, you understand less of your code base vs delivery speed. How do you manage it?

3

u/le_fuzz 3h ago

Theoretically you review it the same way any other PR gets reviewed. There’s also AI code review. But yeah there is a trade off and you understand less of it. Theoretically it’s better tested since there’s no excuse to not have tests written for you.

2

u/FlatProtrusion 3h ago

But with the amount of code that ai writes how do you manage the time to review it with a human? Or do you not have ai write that much usually such that it's humanly possible to still review it in good time?

It's either you review it as before ai or you use ai reviewers to cut the amount of code you review. Which again has a tradeoff.

And for ai generated tests do you review them or just trust the ai to write the correct tests and tests the behaviours you need tested?

Pardon my questions, I am curious how companies manage these nowadays.

3

u/AiexReddit 1h ago edited 1h ago

The answer is exactly what you say, tradeoffs.

If you are producing more lines of code than ever, human review on every line becomes a major bottleneck.

How good are the AI models you're using? How high quality is your product context your providing it to inform tasks? How good are your specs and prompts? How strong are your tests and guardrails to prevent regressions?

Also... how actually critical is the code? One thing I notice in discussions on AI review is that people act like every line of code is sacred. It's not. Code for cryptography requires a different type of PR review than a popup modal.

If someone is writing a UI React component with enough safeguards or linter rules or CI checks in place to stop the most disastrous stuff, e.g. importing a new external dependency, and you can build workflows that you become confident enough that even if they are wrong, or fail -- the total blast radius of that failure is small enough that you can afford not to review every line manually and instead rely on automated tests, and linters and even automated AI agent reviews etc, then you can absolutely speed up your new product feature development and refactoring process significantly.

The reality is that human review fails all the time too. And plenty of people will skim and skip over sections when reviewing, especially when tired, or straight up LGTM a PR authored by someone they trust, or if they trust the automated workflows they've built to catch things. That tradeoff already existing prior to AI, agent authored PRs just introduce a much more extreme version of that tradeoff dance.

But ultimately in the end "number of lines of code looked at by human eyes" isn't a matric that provides any value on its own. It's the risk & regression reduction and suggested improvement outcomes where the value comes from. If your workflow is able to strike a balance where more average value from lines of PRs merged than you were getting with that strict every-line human review coverage on every PR, even when you factor in all the downstream impacts like customer satisfaction with the product, ARR etc..... then it becomes kind of a no-brainer which workflow is better suited for your development process.

To be clear: the above is not an "AI is better" argument -- it's an "every company and development team has different inputs and outputs for what success (and $$$) mean to them, so you need to actually evaluate against those metrics that matter, not on what feels right or wrong"

And keep in mind given the speed of the tech, it's also possible for an AI native workflow with minimal review to be the obviously wrong decision for your product today. But it's possible it could cross some threshold and become the right decision for your team tomorrow. Or next week. Or next year.

Ultimately I've found that being highly skeptical of everything, but still being open to the possibility of everything I thought I knew about SDLC being wrong, has suited me well navigating this crazy time we're in now. I definitely notice others in the company who are not handling it well.

u/FlatProtrusion 57m ago

Yeah, but all this is theoretical and generalization. I wanted to know OP's specific practical workflow that works for his company, especially in faang. And how they managed these tradeoffs that worked for them. There might have been some lessons they learnt etc.

And I appreciate your long and detailed response, thanks.

1

u/Cidraque 3h ago

I would be terrorized I stop being able to code.

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u/le_fuzz 3h ago

IMO writing code is going the way of assembly.

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u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

So you use llms to write the prompts?

6

u/le_fuzz 9h ago

Nah, I’m prompting it myself

2

u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

What type of prompts do you use and how do you structure them? Do you get very detailed?

3

u/le_fuzz 9h ago

Depends on the task. This morning for example I was running into an issue with a service, I fed Claude some API calls I was having issue with and the URL to the Git repo of the service and let it investigate the issue and suggest fixes.

3

u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

So by and large you give it a problem and tell it fix it somehow. Would you have been able to fix the issue yourself? Did you know what the exact problem was?

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u/le_fuzz 9h ago

For the most part I would have been able to fix it myself and I can audit the solutions that Claude provides. Using LLMs though I can work on several of these small type problems more or less at the same time.

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u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

And what was the fix Claude gave you today?

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u/Walletau 4h ago

You can crunch a 5000 line debug log of the call several times in 10 minutes. It's doable by hand but a 30 minute task is now 5 minutes if that. Keep in mind, also don't need to know the material, so integration with a system I've never worked with, while I used to have to hunt through reference documents for calls I've never used, it's now automated...definitely dread filling.

2

u/kayne_21 7h ago

Pretty interesting statistic (with no sources) was mentioned in one of my university CS classes last semester:

Most professional programmers write less than 2000 lines of code annually.

They didn't provide any sources for the statistic, so it might have just been pulled out of a proverbial ass. It was from a lab handout in an assembly class.

3

u/rjcarr 6h ago

Yeah, the old Microsoft stat (long before AI) was the average programmer writes like 8-10 new lines of code per day. That always seemed super off to me, especially as an experienced dev, but maybe they were just predicting future times, ha.

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u/kayne_21 5h ago

Maybe! I figured it was more code review, tracking down bugs, and changing the few lines that were causing the bug. I'm also not a software dev, so take my info with a heaping tablespoon of salt!

1

u/gdchinacat 4h ago

It really depends on the product you are working on. If it is a well established product such a Windows or Office doing mostly maintenance (bug fix) work then yeah...you could spend a couple weeks troubleshooting to ultimately write a hundred line fix...there's your 8 lines of code per day. At a startup doing active feature work (run fast, fail often) a thousand per day is not unheard of (but you probably should refactor that to hundreds). Across the industry as a whole, I think 8/day is probably a bit low...but for Microsoft, it passes the sniff test. Certainly there are hundreds of engineers at MS that produce *way* more than 8/day, but overall it's plausible. While I have no personal experience working there, I have had a few friends who did, and I'm pretty sure one was well below 8/day (working on windows device driver concurrency issues where most fixes took weeks and added one or two lock acquisitions...but he probably read more code than anyone else I've known).

2

u/Ran4 9h ago

18 months seems a bit much but not unreasonable.

Since claude opus 4.5 came out in October last year nothing's really been the same.

I still mostly review code, but I rarely write code. 98% of it is written by Claude or gpt.

Got more than ten years of professional experience as a dev. The code I'm writing on my own isn't really that much better, just different.

1

u/rjcarr 9h ago

Yeah, I'm mostly the same, but started heavy on AI in early spring. I have 20+ years, and now I just review like 95% of the time. It's able to fit so much context in its memory that I just can't compete. Reviews can get long (even days), but still faster than what I can do on my own, and able to tackle much bigger tasks. Only downside is you don't remember things as well when you're reviewing compared to writing, so there is some debt, but it's not that bad (yet).

1

u/manvsmidi 2h ago

I haven’t written any code for work in a year. In my personal time I’ll sometimes write assembly or work on weird old video game hacks for fun, but yeah, for real work there’s not really a reason to anymore. My time is better spent wrangling agents to do things for me.

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u/xenomachina 9h ago

everything from ”don’t even look at code anymore” ...

But everyone of them and their collegues can write advanced software by hand if they have to.

If they don't even look at code anymore, how much longer do you think they'll still have the ability to write advanced software by hand?

Not even looking at the code that agents spit out is madness, IMHO. I do think the AI agents can be used to increase productivity, however:

  • software developers should be responsible for understanding every line of code they submit.
  • the difficulty of reviewing code increases roughly quadratically with size of the change

Combining these two facts, the best approach is to use AI agents for small, focused, changes that can be thoroughly reviewed step by step. Sure, you can get your agent to one-shot a 10,000 line change, but if you are responsible, you will end up having to spend the next 3 weeks reviewing that change.

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u/needs-more-code 9h ago

There are some fools prompting themselves out of their careers in a bid to “not get left behind by AI”.

In my experience, reviewing AI code is NOT enough. You have to write code yourself. Reviewing code doesn’t do shit for your abilities. You actually get bad at reviewing code, because you can’t think of a better way to do it.

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u/xenomachina 9h ago

Yes, I agree. You need to be able to write code to be good at reviewing it, and to be able to write code you need to continue writing code. The crazy thing is, pretty much everybody learns this when they learn to write code in the first place: you can't properly learn to write code just by reading, you actually have to write.

That isn't to say I think a zero-AI stance is necessary. (Though I think it's also fine if somebody has such a stance.) AI agents definitely can be useful for certain kinds of focused changes.

I think the big challenge is walking that fine line between having AI free up some mental resources so that you can use them for other mental tasks, versus completely giving in and not exercising your mental muscles at all. The end result should be higher quantity/quality with equal mental effort, not same quantity/quality with reduced mental effort.

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u/needs-more-code 8h ago

Yep. Some of your time needs to be dedicated to your skills, through doing your normal job, just by coding, otherwise your quality and productivity will fall and you’ll become unemployable. We are all learning these things the hard way. I think there will be more established norms one day. We’ve just all been thrown into this right now so everyone has a different strategy. Well, most people don’t think about it at all and just press the do my job for me button lol.

1

u/Lotton 7h ago

I think a very important thing here is they probably understand software architecture better which is something you really have to hand hold a little more with ai. They might lose the ability to use a language but they will understand the fundamentals quite a bit

1

u/Business_Raisin_541 2h ago

You mean by googling if they have to

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u/Bubbly_Orange_3502 1h ago

Where that hand skill actually gets spent is review. An agent changes a function and leaves two of its three callers untouched because they never entered its context, and the diff still reads clean.

u/andrewharkins77 37m ago

I dont get how people can guve such cliche answers. Use AI for 5 minutes, you'll see all the probkens doen the line.

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u/jameyiguess 11h ago

It's such a difficult, "backwards" problem. AI can replace manual code writing, but only if you are already a skilled developer. You still have to architect, make decisions, guide the AI, constantly tune their directives, come up with workflows, understand the problems from a technical standpoint, catch the AIs doing insane shit or making incorrect assumptions about the business domain, etc etc. 

A junior can't oversee all of that effectively, so the LLM is going to produce garbage. 

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u/Odd_Put_1772 10h ago

Facts. AI can definitely produce results, but I find myself checking how it handles edge cases a lot, or saying something works when it never tested it. It’s not as bad as it was, but it can’t be left totally unchecked yet. And yes it still does insane shit.

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u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

What type of insane shit are we talking about?

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u/Joewoof 11h ago

I think it’s like websites now. In the old days, everyone had to know a little HTML. Nowadays, everyone uses web making platforms.

But when it comes to serious business web apps, at scale? You need someone who can really code the thing. A team of them.

AI is the same.

93

u/hooli-ceo 12h ago

People write code these days.

18

u/theusualguy512 11h ago

Yup, pretty sure lots of people still write code by hand and also earn money by doing it. The current models are only trained on datasets that mostly include publically available code.

Any code base that is closed sourced and contains proprietary paywalled languages have people still writing code by hand because LLMs are unable to gain access to the business context and in some cases have sparse datasets on the languages and systems.

Most egregious example: Enterprise systems like Oracle and heavily legacy systems like DB2 on IBM z/OS, SAP ABAP proprietary language. Everything is behind a paywall and the knowledge of how these systems are set up in companies that use them is not publically available and often quite sensitive, so no publically available LLM model is good at these things.

Any language that is experimental and used within a few walled garden companies like Google. The publically available models are terrible at that and anyone that is damned at Google to work with tha strange language stack can only ever use Google-internal AI and/or write by hand.

Hardware languages like Verilog, C language subsets that are framed for specific proprietary chipsets that only niche industries use, PLC languages and stuff like this most LLMs are just not that useful because they lack system context which is hyperspecific and the information on these systems are often behind paywalls.

3

u/StefanM3e46 11h ago

Exactly this.... I work in banking sector, specifically on ledgers... majority hosted on IBM mainframe or z/OS... LLMs can help you to some degree, Java here and there, COBOL not so much...so in reality its something that you would google from official docs etc...

1

u/Ran4 9h ago

Yes, but in many places, not even remotely as much as they used to.

1

u/hooli-ceo 9h ago

One could argue that’s simply the case for all compiled/transpiled languages as well…

11

u/Acrobatic-Ice-5877 11h ago

Our budgets were reduced so we write a lot by hand. Seems to really depend on where you work. The internet is an echo chamber so just because you see it everywhere online doesn’t mean it’s true IRL.

8

u/Southern_Salary_2253 10h ago

We can all use an calculator.

Who would you hire to manage your companies finances? An accountant or a teenager who is "proficient in LLMs"?

Do I use AI to generate boiler plate, research, and help improve code? Can I explain my code line by line to my supervisor or a new hire? Also yes, and that is the important part.

u/evward 55m ago

I think this is the best answer. To add, companies using AI are paying for developers AND AI. That means their development got more expensive. The cost is justified because AI is a multiplier on productivity. 0 x AI is still 0. You can’t start with 0.

6

u/glandix 10h ago

I write code every day. I use AI, too, but I still manually write a decent amount of code every single day

6

u/start_select 10h ago

It depends on the company and product and developers.

The 15+ year veterans at my work mostly only use LLMs because it’s no different than telling a junior what to do but 10x faster.

If it’s server development it’s 100% of the time because data access and APIs are generally pretty simple.

For web frontend it’s 80% of the time because sometimes UI is ambiguous and better built by humans.

For native mobile it’s 50/50 and depends on the developer. I figured out how to get Claude opus to write decent swift but it still makes mistakes in runnable code that are difficult to spot.

And when doing embedded C/C++ seniors only use it as a pair-programmer where they ask it questions because it tends to write incorrect code. When you have actual hard problems to manage like memory management or writing firmware for Bluetooth, it will write runnable code that accomplishes the task, but leaks memory and eventually crashes the board which is very bad.

Juniors use it to explain what to do next but write the code themselves. Mid-levels do a mixture of both.

Chat bots, crm integrations, landing pages, etc are all “easy” problems. It’s always the same.

Your e-commerce integration looks the same as 90% of other similar e-commerce integrations because there is nothing special about a shopping cart, inventory, invoices, payroll, etc. Literally every company has those things.

So the integrations aren’t anything special.

Landing pages are mostly static html, that’s easy.

Writing stable code for a new ESP32 variant and a custom Bluetooth stack or a custom sensor module is not easy. It might be something an LLM has never seen in its training data.

Writing stable code with memory management is not easy. You can’t follow the life cycle of all variables in a straight procedural line. The sequence of events before and after allocation and release might be different 20x a day.

Writing stable code with lots of async threading in a language like Swift is not easy. It might look correct and run, but do it wrong and you have the same memory leak problems or cause crashes because of cross-thread memory access.

Some problems are a lot harder than others. Some programmers never see those in their entire career. Some programmers do every other week.

2

u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

Thanks.

11

u/reflettage 11h ago

Being a “skilled programmer” is way more than knowing how to write code in a given language, even before AI. Good programs have architecture, and designing + maintaining good program architecture is very much a skill, and imo it’s a much harder one to learn. AI can write code, it sucks at architecture. We may be moving away from writing individual lines of code ourselves, but “programming” as a skill is not dead, it’s just changing.

5

u/Hoshifuru 11h ago

As someone working with legacy systems, I would not say that code does not get written, sure, less is written and more is generated but there is still handwritten code.

From my experience, greenfielding new projects can go quite well using LLMs since the training data "knows" all the right patterns and idiomatic ways of doing almost any given task.

However, we work with systems that have been around for decades, with some of the Java projects being as old as Java itself, and for such projects with relatively little documentation and very project specific ways of doing things that have evolved over the years, it struggles.

Using higher end LLMs like Opus all the time helps since it is a bit better at "connecting the dots", but that quite expensive real fast so it is somewhat more efficient to point Sonnet to adjacent examples or a mini-PoC to demonstrate the business logic.

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u/Sarkonix 11h ago

You need to be able to understand it more than the ability to churn out thousands of lines of code these days.

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u/FireFearing 10h ago

people will rationalize any reason to say you dont need to learn programming anymore because its hard and takes tons of effort and time

people dont like effort and delayed gratification

its mostly wishful thinking. could it be true eventually? sure maybe, but claiming thats the case now is beyond a stretch and its just people making logical jumps to excuse themselves from putting in more effort than they want to put in

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u/gofl-zimbard-37 9h ago

I write all my code. Why let computers have all the fun?

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u/viking_linuxbrother 8h ago

You can spend your entire life using a microwave/airfryer and eating what it can make. Other people still learned to cook and can use the whole kitchen. You can use AI to program and not know how to program. There is also a whole world of things you can know and do that don't require an AI chatbox and an AI IDE. Its a rich world where you get to learn and make things, you can still use tools but you aren't limited by them.

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u/TravelingSpermBanker 11h ago

I write code still since i know it and it’s quicker to type out and ask ai to do.

However there is tons of code I use now that i don’t have to write myself anymore

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u/Jwhodis 12h ago

A lot of code is still written by hand because AI cannot be trusted to make good code.

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u/StoneCypher 12h ago

a lot of code is still written by hand because even though it’s good enough for microsoft and google, local randos are still pretending to themselves that their superior skill, taste, and finesse are what’s going to carry the day

if only google had people at that skill level 

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u/ResolutionThat248 11h ago

Why do Microsoft and Google still employ engineers then?

2

u/le_fuzz 11h ago

To prompt Claude and feed Claude documents

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u/StoneCypher 9h ago

see, this is why you think real engineers don't use claude

because you don't understand how we use claude, and if we used it the way you did, it wouldn't make sense to employ us

which means you have two possibilities

  1. the world's largest engineering companies are wasting hundreds of billions of dollars a year on salary because they don't know as much as you do about programming, or
  2. you are mistaken about how senior engineers use claude

hm

which one of those sounds more likely

remember, we know that microsoft already made the choice "more claude or people," and chose people

maybe the sarcasm you learned in novice groups on social media doesn't actually map to a deep understanding of the profession?

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u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

And how do senior engineers use Claude?

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u/StoneCypher 9h ago

a great number of different ways.

but not just "derp i'm uploading files." that's a sad pastiche by a junior dev who's desperate to look down on people they've never met.

it's just "your world is dead, old man" energy from someone who just launched their 95th wrapper of claude to roast a website

my personal opinion is that the value of advice is intensely tied to the accomplishments of the speaker

0

u/hylasmaliki 8h ago

Can you give some concrete examples how a senior might use Claude?

1

u/StoneCypher 8h ago

... that's such a waste of time question to ask

what am i supposed to do, cherry pick a few examples of what individuals i know do and act like that's some kind of valuable goal?

i have the strong impression you're winding up for "if you can't summarize what an entire segment of programmers do in a few pithy sentences, then the character assasination against them was fact"

like ask yourself your own question. can you give some concrete examples of how a senior might use github?

sure you can. and it'd be a waste of everyone's time, and nothing of value would be communicated, because examples aren't relevant here. so why bother? oh, they're naming actions? oh. policy files? branch protection rules? an application? oh. like what is the point of a list like that at all?

what, do you want me to tell you things you already know, about /goal and /loop, about ultracode and ultrathink, about writing evidence driven agents, about how to manage testing, about how to write design systems, about how to write code standards? are you hoping that i can vomit some matt pocock at you? did you want to see my custom mcps? my custom plugins? are you hoping i will lead you to the manna in the promised land and just anoint you with some magic skills and claudefiles? managing your context, using the right engine for the job, getting dispatch right, the benefits of different models? how to write things to not trigger the nanny state filters? what are you even asking for?

the answer to the question you're asking isn't relevant by definition. the question has no meaningful answer. "ways senior people do things" is just a potpourri grab bag of observations.

the actual comment here was "no, of course google isn't paying people $400k to upload pdfs into claude and copy paste the result, why would you believe something like that"

and i got my answer.

because that's how the person speaking uses claude, and they cannot fathom that anything else exists at all.

it's like someone saying "chefs are just people who cut noodles with knives," and when someone laughingly says "no, you just don't know what they do," having a third party come along and tug at your pants leg and say over and over "yeah, but can you tell me how experienced chefs use knives? yeah, but can you tell me how experienced chefs use knives? yeah, but can you tell me how experienced chefs use knives?"

sure i could. i just don't want to. it's a waste of both of our time.

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u/ResolutionThat248 8h ago

It would have been faster to give one or two examples than that fucking novel you just posted.

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u/le_fuzz 9h ago

I use Claude every day, I literally do what I said above. I happen to know what prompts to give and what bits of documentation to feed Claude. Work at a FAANG, am grossly overpaid.

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u/StoneCypher 9h ago

well, you're very fortunate. that's not what it is for most of us.

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u/le_fuzz 9h ago

Obviously the more knowledge and skill you have as an engineer the more capable you’ll be using LLMs for coding. But on an anecdotal level barring a couple of “critical” codebases where engineers are not allowed to use LLMs everyone is heavily making use of Claude code.

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u/StoneCypher 8h ago

Obviously the more knowledge and skill you have as an engineer the more capable you’ll be using LLMs for coding

i think this is very much not true, actually.

i was dragging my heels about this class of tool for several years. i only got serious about them nine months ago. i once tried them in 2024 and had a very bad experience, because the tools were genuinely not ready yet and also i chose vendor poorly, leading me to believe the whole thing was a bunch of bunk.

when i circled back, the person who taught me to do this was two years on the job to my thirty.

 

But on an anecdotal level barring a couple of “critical” codebases where engineers are not allowed to use LLMs everyone is heavily making use of Claude code.

we agree

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u/le_fuzz 7h ago

I think the LLMs right now are amplifying engineers. If you’re not that great it allows you to do a lot of stuff but not that well. If you know what you’re doing it is multiplying your productivity.

I do very much believe that over time LLMs will eliminate a lot of software development roles.

Edit: regarding your experience these tools have gotten drastically better since 2024. Another time I have is to stick to the flagship models for whatever set of models you pick. E.g., sonnet is not up to the task whereas Opus with 1million token context window is good.

0

u/StoneCypher 9h ago

"engineers use these tools"

"why do microsoft and google employ engineers then?

because you're the alternative

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u/TheSnailBear 12h ago

Yes. The industry has largely leveraged AI so that one no longer writes code manually. However, you cannot verify what the AI is actually doing if you don’t know your shit so you still do need to be a skilled programmer.

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u/lookForProject 11h ago

I think the issue is, that junior and medior software engineers, other then training, are more and more useless.
Most of the issues AI can not solve, can also not be solved by a junior.

Futhermore, the places where juniors searched, are dying because of AI. So they are depending on AI more and more

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u/Vaprk263 9h ago

If only seniors are needed now, what happens in the future when the industry still needs seniors? How can we have seniors in the future if we do not hire juniors now?

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u/lookForProject 7h ago

Yeah that will become a problem. And when AI progresses perhaps one that AI can solve. But I think we are setting ourself up for a deadlock.
Another issue: there are plenty of problems, I can not tackle. But my colleague might.
When everyone is using AI, everyone won't be able to solve the same problem.

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u/hylasmaliki 11h ago

What issues can juniors not solve?

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u/brotherman555 11h ago

literally anything..

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u/hylasmaliki 11h ago

Name 3?

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u/jameyiguess 11h ago

I DEF wouldn't say "literally anything", juniors are great. But I wouldn't expect a junior to be able to debug and fix a DB n+1 issue, or write a complex data migration, or handle stuff with complicated business rules. 

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u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

What would expect a junior to know or be able to do?

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u/jameyiguess 6h ago

Do the easiest tickets with guidance. Explore and learn. Pair with people. Give code reviews. 

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u/lookForProject 11h ago

Depends on the junior. But most juniors, are a bit useless to begin with. And that is ok, most of us like to teach and train.
Mediors and talented juniors on the other hand, where able to solve a lot smaller issues, very fast. At most companies I worked at, they made up an decent portion of the workhorses.
That role is now being filled by AI.

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u/hylasmaliki 11h ago

Can you name some problems they can't solve?

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u/lookForProject 11h ago

"Name problems", spoken like a true junior.
Problems might be abstract, but 99% of the issues you will come across, are very context specific.
The context being the language, the infrastructure, the frameworks, the domain.

Sure, if you think about problems as "leetcode challenge", then loads of juniors and AI can blow me out of the water.

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u/hylasmaliki 10h ago

Why can't you give an example?

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u/StoneCypher 8h ago

every single post you've written has been a half sentence whiny question demanding other people do things for you. you did this to me too.

you're extremely annoying and you aren't delivering value.

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u/StoneCypher 8h ago

interacting with others in a productive way, figuring out what the correct solution to a problem is, knowing when something is satisfactory, security in general, behaving appropriately in professional groups, knowing how and when to compromise, not constantly asking questions in the fashion of a child, and tackling problems nobody else noticed yet, mostly.

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u/hylasmaliki 8h ago

Are you calling me a junior?

1

u/EliSka93 7h ago

Are you not??

0

u/hylasmaliki 7h ago

He was a bit passive aggressive with the way he said it

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u/StoneCypher 6h ago

"i thought that slinging insults to an honest answer to a question i didn't like wouldn't prove him right"

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u/No_Report_4781 11h ago

I’m literally updating python code using gedit right now

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u/elPappito 8h ago

Easy jobs - yes, don't think they write anything by hand anymore. Advanced logic, advanced software ? I think you can't completely replace human with ai chat bot.

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u/Trlckery 8h ago

Started my first dev job out of college in 2019. I’d describe myself as a hesitant adopter but in my day to day job it was 100% hand written until like 2023. Then started using copilot for code snippets and such but still writing the majority by hand. So far in 2026, with Claude, I have hardly written any code myself. I have more free time but it’s a lot less rewarding mentally. It has also created a lot of anxiety for where the industry is going and if/when this bubble is going to pop.

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u/dvisorxtra 5h ago

I don't use AI, like at all.

And yes, I code.

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u/drex_vke 10h ago

it's false a lot of people write code by hand everyday like me.

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u/ffrkAnonymous 11h ago

whats your token budget?

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u/Trlckery 8h ago

At my job we’re given $300 a month with Claude

0

u/Alternative-Stuff149 10h ago

I'm not really sure, I just know they pay $60 a month, and so far we haven't had any problems with exceeding or being close to the token limit.

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u/Wingedchestnut 12h ago

Depends on the environment and technology and your role.

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u/plantingles 11h ago

I am a 15 year vet, have not manually written code in over a year. I have shipped countless features and bug fixes to production to millions of users. Coding is dead. To the extent that old, slow moving companies are still writing code by hand, you can probably find those jobs in dwindling numbers over the next few years. But it won't last.

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u/neverbeendead 11h ago

I just got Claude CLI a few weeks ago and I feel a little lost. We literally just hired 2 new developers because my company is retarded and doesn't listen to the one developer they had. Now I spend two hours a day having Claude do all my work and the rest of the day I sit there bored waiting for someone to give me something to do. Any tips?

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u/start_select 10h ago

It depends on the code. For web dev sure it’s mostly dead. But sometimes it’s better for you to write the css or jsx or html.

For native/embedded code with memory management and other higher level concepts like threading and shared memory, LLMs write code that works until the memory leaks it creates crash the board or iPhone.

It depends on the use case.

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u/lookForProject 11h ago

Ah, the 1=n n is the truth coder.

For simple operations, AI will do just fine. For complex issues, large infrastructure, where most of the fun and income is found, AI isn't there yet.

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u/plantingles 2h ago

Nope, it is really there. It's all about harness engineering now. If you don't know what that is you are way behind.

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u/HouseOfDjango 11h ago

It's there.

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u/start_select 10h ago

Do you write embedded/native code like C/C++ for bare-metal? (No OS)

Or complex Swift or Rust?

Because even Fable writes code that will work for an hour before the memory leaks or threading issues it created crash the board.

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u/StoneCypher 8h ago

Do you write embedded/native code like C/C++ for bare-metal? (No OS)

i do

 

Because even Fable writes code that will work for an hour before the memory leaks or threading issues it created crash the board.

are you pretending you don't?

give fable valgrind

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u/start_select 8h ago

I'll tell my coworker to try that. I'm not on the embedded team. I only work on their stuff every couple of years. Its just the complaints I have heard.

The only platform I have problems with LLMs on are Swift for MacOS and iPhone. I successfully use Claude everywhere else. I successfully use it there too but it requires a much more complicated test harness and code-build-test-iterate loop than anything else.

My biggest complaint about that is that it writes incorrect but working code that most developers will never notice.

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u/HouseOfDjango 9h ago

Do you provide that information to it in the context when working in those areas?

If you just provide the task and expect to just do it correctly, that's what turns it into none working code. If you provide it a "playbook" of how to do The things you want the way you want, the quality and consistency of the code will increase.

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u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

Can you give an example of real world playbook

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u/lookForProject 11h ago

Perhaps, but not yet for public. I use several AI providers, and it is very usefull. But if the tasks become too large, too niche or too complex, none of the solutions are up to the task.

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u/HouseOfDjango 9h ago

I disagree, if the task is to large then it can be broken down into subtask. If it's a niche or complex issue then you can provide it playbooks of how to handle those niche and complex issues the way you want to as well.

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u/lookForProject 7h ago

Writing code already is a small part of the job, the "provide playbook" is part of your job.

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u/Trlckery 8h ago

If a task is too large for AI then the task is also too large for a human.

FWIW I much preferred my job writing code before LLMs became one of our tools.

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u/lookForProject 7h ago

Yes, small tasks with a low mental stack are the way to go.
But the reality isn't like this. It is complex and dirty and too large.

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u/StoneCypher 8h ago

Perhaps, but not yet for public. I use several AI providers, and it is very usefull. But if the tasks become too large, too niche or too complex, none of the solutions are up to the task.

the poor workman blames the tool

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u/lookForProject 7h ago

No, the professional knows the tools limit. I love the hype, but there is a reason why the for-runners of AI, with the best AI in house, didn't fire all their software engineers yet.
They will, but not yet.
Do not be mad at this workman that he isn't replaced by a new fancy tool that easy.

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u/StoneCypher 4h ago

the sky is not falling

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u/StoneCypher 8h ago

For simple operations, AI will do just fine. For complex issues, large infrastructure, where most of the fun and income is found, AI isn't there yet.

google, microsoft, apple, and facebook, the largest software engineering orgs on earth, disagree.

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u/lookForProject 8h ago

They are cutting because they need the money to invest in their own AI tools.
They did fire around <10% of their workforce.

So in other words, the companies on the forefront of AI, with AI that likely far outperforms what you and I can use, still didn't fire the bulk of their very expensive workforce.

Thanks for making the argument yourself.

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u/StoneCypher 4h ago

(sigh) that isn't even slightly related to what i said

normally i would say "and i think you know that" but i don't

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u/lookForProject 4h ago

You said the companies disagree. Ignore what they say, watch what they do.
They in fact did not fire 90% of their software engineers. Their technology is at least one generation better then what we can use, and they have unlimited tokens.

If AI could replace their very expensive workforce, they would do this in a heartbeat.

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u/StoneCypher 4h ago

that isn't even slightly related to what i said

normally i would say "and i think you know that" but i don't

you seem to be ignoring what i'm saying, and treating this as a podium for you to screed against faang

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u/Zalenka 9h ago

I write code and have AI generate code. I review and submit my code for peer review.

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u/tangentstorm 9h ago

LLMs are getting better and better at generating good code. Personally, I tend to micromanage or even hand write code in some places, and just look at the results rather than the code in other places... I think it mostly just depends on whether the architecture of the system is important to me (something I consider an asset) or whether I'm just trying to get some arbitrary behavior out of the computer.

It's very cheap to just ask for prototypes now, for example, and not even worry about the implementation language or framework. You can often defer that decision arbitrarily, because it's cheap to port code now (if the implementation language even matters).

Whenever I do read the code, I find that it tends to be fairly good, no matter which model I'm using, though the harder the problem, the more likely it is to have mistakes. (Ex: basic web stuff is usually perfect... A sat solver I've been working on is full of subtle bugs.)

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u/GermOrean 9h ago

At our company we haven't written code by hand in awhile.

That's not saying I blindly tell Claude to go do something and send it. I plan, refine, and review the agents work, and we also still gatekeep our merges to main via peer review (and AI).

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u/decrementsf 9h ago

Fundamentals let you know if any of the output is reasonable. We are all technical reviewers now. Developing ability to write code the old fashioned way is what provides intuition to spot issues before they become brittle and explode into a scaled problem. It is a rule of professional work that everyone will be under pressure to produce more faster than reasonable. Whether you find a way to push back and check or not or do as many do and simply let it rip and hop to the next role before it explodes. We shall have fun in the near future.

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u/Y2K-enn 8h ago

I write my code for personal projects or side deals. but at work the majority of the heavy lifting I let agents do it. They laid off my team over the last year, and the company clearly doesn't care or appreciate the work I bring. so fuck it. let claude do it while I work on my personal shit to get out of there. That being said I do still review what is being done to make sure I at least understand what is happening.

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u/Redlight477 8h ago

It really depends on the project, its complexity and how much patience you have for prompting the LLM vs just writing it yourself

1

u/dklogics 7h ago

If the app is performant, and reliable you’re good. I don’t know the answer to whether or not it’s worth it to “learn to code” anymore. If I were you I’d hedge my bets and try my best to understand what the agent is outputting (8+ hrs per day of looking at code, you’ll start to absorb it whether agent writes it or not), but don’t go too slow because there are others out there who could code circles around you, or your agency, and make the same product for less cost by optimizing speed.

1

u/Pale_Height_1251 7h ago

Most, but not all of the programmers I know are now using AI for basically everything.

1

u/Quixotic7 7h ago

While most are going to use LLMs for coding now a days it will give you a leg up if you can understand and write code yourself. It’s not a waste to learn.

1

u/XandertheGrander 7h ago

I've been a full time developer for about a year and a half now. Even at my company it's split between handing everything off to the AI and writing everything by hand (generally the older developers are less trustworthy of AI and the younger developers like me use it often because its the tool we entered into the workforce with). The main thing I've noticed, is that writing code is not the barrier to entry anymore, but you still must understand the code and be able to zoom out and see the systems you are building and how they interact with each other. Personally, I have mixed feelings on AI tools, but I can't deny that they are incredibly helpful, however I still strive to learn everyday to become better because even with AI you will still need to provide directions/specifications/changes when it implements something differently than you intended.

1

u/Limp-Cicada-9502 3h ago

If you really want to understand how software is written forget about using AI. You will not learn anything other then how to get the AI to write what you want. Right now AI is good for writing things that have been done over and over again like cookie cutter websites. Doesn't take any skill to do that because you are not making anything new.

1

u/higmil1010 3h ago

i still do

1

u/groversnoopyfozzie 2h ago

I have been using AI pretty heavily the past few months. It writes tone of code for me, but I spend a big amount of time making sure it is doing what I’m asking it to do.

I recently had to build a day for a very specific purpose. It was able to to look at the general architecture of the dags in our infrastructure and came ups with a pretty good template.

Since then I have spent a couple days tweaking SQL queries, creating reevaluating how it would scale. Putting sensors and dependencies with other jobs. Etc etc.

I am probably never going to code some new algorithm, but everytime you ask ai to do something it makes like 20 decisions fly on the wall you that you need to understand and question.

So it’s an amazing tool, but you also have to keep your eye on it.

1

u/vextryyn 2h ago

I personally would recommend reviewing the code, the number of backdoors ai leaves open is still too high to trust it and when ai reviews ai there is a good chance it wont pick up actual issues

1

u/arkt8 1h ago edited 1h ago

It is too early to you think about... The more you learn and write performant and or critical and or reusable code...the less you will trust AI.

I tried to ask AI to write "not serious" code some times (to understand some implementation alternatives). Every time it wrote bloated or with perf/sec gaps. Tried to refine but context start to be forgotten (?) and it only worsened. Then tried again and again refining the prompt from zero... well other points emerged and so on...

My point is: I knew what I wanted and knew how to do it... and Ai didnt produced acceptable code. If I didnt knew it could be passed as satisfatory.

There is a quote from Alice in Wonderland very related to most amazed people using AI nowadays:

If you don't know where you want to go, then it doesn't matter which path you take.

1

u/adumbCoder 1h ago

too early to tell. yes it's possible to truly not have to write a line of code, but that takes lots of effort and good systems and redundancies.

the industry is still in a transition period and it's unclear how this transition ends. what we do know is we'll be utilizing a lot more AI and writing by hand a lot less. how much is still unclear

u/LetsHugFoReal 42m ago

Of course we write code. Those who are incompetent don't.

u/Humble_Anxiety_9534 19m ago

when the bubble pops and tokens are £100 a pop. you or some guy in India will be very busy.

u/No_Context2723 0m ago

Scary times

2

u/Agreeable-Cell4007 10h ago

As a hobby, I learn Rust by hand and low-level system programming.
Professionally, I haven't written a single line since June 2025, and anyone who still does is a bit delulu imo.

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u/junglebunglerumble 10h ago

There's still people in this thread claiming "AI writes shit code" - i can only assume either they've had their head in the sand since 2023 when that was true, or they just don't want to admit reality

1

u/Boot_Burner 9h ago

I’m in an introductory C++ course right now and the professor is vehemently anti-AI. I’m not saying I don’t want to learn the basics of coding and debugging but when I got my undergrad they told us we’d have to memorize all kinds of things in the event we “didn’t have a calculator”. I guess they didn’t realize we’d all have super computers in our pockets within a decade. 

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u/klarkens 11h ago

Truth be told I haven't written code by hand for a year or so. I used to at least manually "correct" the output of the AI when I disagreed with it, now I don't even do that anymore as it happens quite rarely. I still think you should learn how to program so you understand the output of the AI and just for knowledge's sake. But im afraid the day of actually typing out code is gone

1

u/Any-Range9932 11h ago

I just review and just reprompt if I want a different approach or need to update a design plan

4

u/No-Union-463 11h ago

Sounds like fun

-1

u/Any-Range9932 11h ago

Yup. Hand crafted code feels like an artisanal niche now

1

u/ResolutionThat248 10h ago

This sub is going to be extremely biased in favour of AI, because it's primarily for newcomers who cannot be arsed to learn properly and have convinced themselves that all the big boys are doing nothing but sit around prompting claude.

1

u/LuckyPichu 10h ago

I still write code for my own projects and stuff that's too technical for the frontier models to handle faster than I can(despite the hype this still very, very much exists). Though generally I dictate changes to an agent through some sort of harness. I'd say that being able to steer an agent and correct it as it designs a piece of software incrementally with you is equivalent to writing the change yourself in terms of required skills. I'd still learn programming by writing code by hand though, as it is probably superior from a recall standpoint. I would also just get good at using agents for productivity, too.

2

u/hylasmaliki 9h ago

What type of harness we talking about

1

u/LuckyPichu 7h ago

I like Pi and Claude Code. I'll use the hunk diff viewer and its associated skill to have agents write their comments and explanations, and then approve/reject diffs by directing changes as I go.

Some people have more advanced setups, but I like to keep things generally pretty simple.

1

u/hylasmaliki 7h ago

Thanks. What are more advanced set ups?

1

u/LuckyPichu 4h ago

Some people run sandbox containers with hermes or OpenClaw to give their agents a higher level of autonomy while managing risk. Regardless of setup, OpenRouter is a solid tool to pick and choose models while maintaining the same harness.

In my experience advanced setups aren't really all that necessary to get most of the mileage you'd want out of the models.

If you're just starting out don't go off the deep end. Codex, Claude Code and Pi are all solid bases. From there, look into how skills and MCP servers/clients work.

I recommend keeping it simple and figuring out how you like writing specs and incrementally programming with models. A complex setup will just add overhead with very little learning value and make itself an obstacle to the goal of learning how to program with LLMs, learning to use LLMs, and learning to program in general.

1

u/fuzz3289 8h ago

It’s necessary even if it doesn’t look the same. Think of it like this - no one really writes assembly anymore, and fewer people write C every day.

Software engineering has always been about layering abstractions to produce software more quickly.

You can think of LLMs as just non-deterministic toolchains, you can use them to produce code, perform static analysis, where instead of a high level language like Python you work in Contracts, Engineering Specs, sequence diagrams, etc.

You need to be able to read and understand the output though because they are non-deterministic, they fail often and you need to know when they do.

1

u/Icy-Importance2143 2h ago

AI is developing rapidly, and I believe that in the near future, a single command will be enough to complete our tasks. I'm also a complete novice in programming, but I'm gradually turning my ideas into web pages using Codex. I believe that in the future, technology will become less valuable, while good ideas will become increasingly scarce.

0

u/LuckyGamble 6h ago

Yup, the industry has moved on from manual coding and alot of people are coping, but the fact is AI is faster and better than the vast majority of human programmers.

0

u/MATTDAYYYYMON 6h ago

I think it really depends. Some places they even have their own ai to generate code so there’s less risk of data leaks but in truth I have a few friends that said they had to relearn how to do a couple things because they had atrophied their coding skill by having AI do a lot of the work for them, for a long while. Some jobs you really don’t want ai doing all the work like high security fields or very high privileged banking positions where all their access could be a massive liability if ai was maliciously utilized.

The truth so far as I can tell is that it’s just proving more and more that we need to be aware of how to code in the event AI isn’t an option or in a highly secured field but at the same time learn how to optimize it if it is utilized, not just giving it all your work but instead having it do the menial low level stuff that’s just boring so you can get your work done more efficiently.

0

u/thesounddefense 6h ago

I still write plenty of code myself as a software engineer. There are plenty of small tasks where it's frankly faster for me to just do it myself than figure out how to correctly prompt the agent. There are also some very complex files I work with that I do not trust an agent to handle correctly. In general, I never tell an agent to do something unless I've learned how to do it myself. And I also code in my spare time without ever using AI.

1

u/FilmWeasle 6h ago

I've run into similar problems when writing algorithms. The AI needs guidance for every last detail, and it winds up taking more time and more keystrokes to write prompts for the AI than it does to just write the code.

0

u/got_to_laugh 6h ago

It's like someone in the 2000s telling you that no one is going to be using pens and paper due to laptops and phones.

In 2026, I had to write using pen/paper for the first time in years yesterday and my handwriting was soooo bad. All I really use it for is signatures.

So the 2000s guy was right... Eventually... 20 years later. Between then and now I have done a lot of handwriting though, it just tailed off.

Are BIC pens and Parker pens still in business? Yes. I wouldn't want to have shares in them tho.

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u/Acceptable_Lab_7196 11h ago

I'd hate to see whatever code you people are selling. AI writes shit code.

3

u/Boot_Burner 9h ago

The code is only as bad as the prompt, which is entirely based on the person who wrote it. 

1

u/junglebunglerumble 10h ago

Still repeating the same points from 2023 I see - AI doesn't "write shit code" any more than "humans write shit code" - sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt, just like with humans. AI has moved on to the point that you just seem daft with blanket statements that AI always writes shit code as that clearly isn't true anymore

-1

u/Substantial_Job_2068 11h ago

Web dev shops use AI. Serious companies use it sparingly or not at all.

1

u/Trlckery 8h ago

What the hell are you talking about?
EVERY “serious” company is leveraging Claude right now and the majority of them are more or less forcing devs to use the tool through token usage tracking.

1

u/Substantial_Job_2068 7h ago

Forgot to add an asterisk for companies that have an interest in burning tokens to portray that they are more efficient now. But that also falls in the non serious company folder.

-2

u/Eango_ 10h ago

only losers do

-2

u/eyecandy99 9h ago

i wish i could downvote you 200x

-2

u/No-Slice-5926 7h ago

Haven't written code in awhile, currently building a ai os/is system and it's working beautifully