r/mtg • u/Andy_babe • 12h ago
Rules Question How does this work?
If i have [firesong and sunspeaker] out and cast [sacred fire] how much life will i gain and how much damage will i deal? I cast sacred fire, it deals 2 dmg ang heals me 2. lifelink heals me 3 and firesong deals 3 dmg.
Will firesong deal 3 dmg twise because of the lifelink?
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u/TDFknFartBalloon 12h ago
Past ruling:
If a red and white spell you control deals damage and also instructs you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker's last ability triggers twice. (2018-04-27)
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u/Snapydubi 11h ago
So 10dmg and 8 life total if you cast and flashback sacred fire in 1 turn?
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u/Pavel_GS 11h ago
No, 16 damages (2 + 3 + 3)*2 and 8 life
Sacred flame deals 2 and gains you 2 life 2 different times (lifelink gains you 2 and the resolution of the spell gains you 2) each instance of life gain will trigger Firesong & Sunspeaker, causing 2 instances of 3 damages. So one resolution of Sacred Flame is 8 damages and 4 life. Then Flashback doubles that.
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u/Snapydubi 11h ago
But the lifegain is not what triggers Firsong, is the instant/sorcery casting
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u/Pavel_GS 10h ago
It isn't the casting. What triggers F&S is "a white instant or sorcery gaining you life". F&S also gives lifelink to red instant and sorceries, so if you were to use the first mode of [[Rip appart]] Firesong would give it lifelink (it is a red sorcery), you would deal 3 damages to a creature or pw, gain 3 life from lifelink and then trigger Sunspeaker seeing a white sorcery gaining you life (since the spell gains lifelink, it is itself that gains you life, not Firesong) dealing 3 additional damage to a creature or player.
In [[Sacred Fire]] case, the spell itself already gains you life and the lifelink is added on top of that, so the one spell gains you life 2 times, triggering Sunspeaker 2 times for a total of 6 damages.
And also, to add on the "it's not the casting that triggers", if you could not gain life ([[Screaming Nemesis]] for example), casting [[Sacred Fire]] would only deal 2 damages, you would gain 0 life and Sunspeaker would deal 0 damage.
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u/Snapydubi 10h ago
You are totally right, I misread the card. Thx I understand better it’s mechanic now.
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u/Tyndalvin 11h ago
The 3 damage from Firesong triggers 4 times, so the total damage would be 12 damage from Firesong and 4 damage from Sacred Fire. 16 damage, 8 life gain.
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u/Beastmanwasx 12h ago
Should be 2 damage and 2 life gain to you on the stack
Triggered ability lifelink on spell
Triggered ability 2 life gain
2 3 damage.
Total 8 damage and 4 life gain.
I am not a judge just have been playing for a long time
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u/Belteshazzar98 12h ago
Yes, it will trigger twice because the spell will cause you to gain life twice.
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u/Lake_Apart 11h ago
Deal two damage/gain two life (spell)
Gain 2 life (lifeline)
Deal 3 damage (spell trigger)
Deal 3 damage (life gain trigger)
Total: deal 8 damage gain 4 life
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u/FawkesTheRisen 12h ago
You’re right. It’s two different instances of an instant causing you to gain life. The trigger ability triggers twice.
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u/Elendel 10h ago
Damn, lots of conflicting answers in this thread.
Basically the only question is whether or not Sacred Fire triggers Firesong once or twice.
Sacred Fire itself deals 2 damage and heal for 4 (2 from the spell effect itself and 2 from the lifelink). And Firesong procs only deal damage, they don't heal.
If it procced Firesong only once, meaning the two instances of healing were somehow considered as only one, you'd be dealing a total of 5 damage (2 from Sacred Fire + 3 from Firesong) and healing for a total of 4.
But the two instances of healing caused by Sacred Fire, although they occur during the resolution of a single spell on the stack, are counted separately, one occur as you resolve the "deal 2 damage" part of the spell then the second occur when you resolve the "heal 2" part of the spell. Once the spell is fully resolved, Firesong's triggered ability is put on the stack twice. You end up dealing a total of 8 damage (2+3+3) and heal for 4.
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u/SubjectPromotion9533 7h ago
sacred fire resolves dealing two damage to its Target, this has LifeLink so you also gain two at the same time. the second part of the spell also causes you to gain two life as well. so the spell deals two damage and gains four life in total.
this causes two fire song and Sun speaker triggers to go on stack, resulting in two triggers of three damage.
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u/VegetablePhotos 12h ago
You deal 5 damage, and gain 4 life.
The extra 3 damage is being dealt by the permanent, not the spell.
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u/fluffynuckels 12h ago
Wouldn't it be 2 damage from the spell 3 more damage from the life the spell gains you then 3 more damage because the spell has life link
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u/Belteshazzar98 12h ago
If a red and white spell you control deals damage and also instructs you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker's last ability triggers twice.
Official ruling on Firesong and Sunspeaker. You deal 8 damage (split across 2 damage from the spell and two different triggered bolts for 3 each) and gain 4 life (split across gaining two from lifelink and gaining two from the rest of the text).
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u/Andy_babe 12h ago
But doesent the lifelink count as the spell gaining me life twice, triggering firesong twice?
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u/Gla7e 12h ago
If a red and white spell you control deals damage and also instructs you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker's last ability triggers twice.
From the officials rules section, so yes, they trigger twice. You deal 2 damage and gain 4 life total for the spell and then deal 3 damage two times from their 2 triggers.
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u/SilkFinish 9h ago
Blasphemous Act on the token player might actually just take someone out of the game and make you unkillable. Oh man I want to build this
Edit: reading the card explains the card…
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 5h ago
Normally, "X damage to target" means "target loses X life if they're a player or has X damage marked on it if it's a creature" (or if it's a Battle, or loses Loyalty counters if they're a planeswalker, but to keep it simply I restrict it to players and creatures). Lifelink is a static effect that modifies the meaning of "damage" to mean "target loses X life if they're a player or has X damage marked on them if they're a creature and you gain X life". So "Sacred Fire deals 2 damage to any target and you gain 2 life" means "Target loses 2 life if they're a player or has 2 damage marked on it if it's a creature and you gain 2 life and you gain 2 life". There are two separate instances of you gaining life, so Firesong triggers twice. When events are written separately like that, they trigger abilities separately. So if it were worded as "Sacred Fire deals 1 damage to any target, then deals 1 damage to that target, then you gain 1 life, then you gain 1 life", Firesong would trigger four times.
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u/Important-Tackle-667 2h ago
Target takes 2 damage and you gain 2
You then gain 2 from damage and deal an additional 3 to another target (or the same assuming it’s a creature or player)
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u/chenilletueuse1 2h ago
I asked my beginner gf and she said its an infinite loop so the youngest at the table wins by default. Jk, i dont have a gf
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u/Resmyx 12h ago
First Sacred Fire does two damage and lifelink heals you two life when that damage is dealt. Then Sacred Fire heals you for two life.
Second Firesong and Sunspeaker does three damage, twice, once for the two life gain and second from the lifelink. Note that this is Firesong and Sunspeaker doing the damage, not Sacred Fire.
Total of four lifegain, seven damage.
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u/Andy_babe 12h ago
How did you get seven? 2+3+3?
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 5h ago
"lifelink heals you two life when that damage is dealt"
In MTG, the word "when" indicates triggers, but lifelink is not triggered.
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u/zaratzara 12h ago
No, because it’s the one dealing that 3 damage and it’s not an instant or sorcery.
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u/Varragoth 12h ago
2 damage from the instant. Gain 2 from the instant itself and 2 more from the ability the creature grants. Then the creature has 3 damage to throw around. That’s it. Lifelong doesn’t cause extra damage itself.
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u/Anrativa 12h ago
Sacred fire does 3 damage and you gain 3 life by its own effect.
You gain 3 life due to lifelink.
Firesong and Sunspeaker triggers twice, you get two triggers to do 3 damage on the stack.
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u/Andy_babe 12h ago
Yeh so:
Spell 2 damage 2 life
Lifelink 2 life
Firesong 3 damage from spell and 3 damage from lifelink
Total: 8 damage 4 life2
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u/CorpseHero69 12h ago
No I think you gain the 4 life all at the same time so it’s not seen as a different instance so fire song deals 3 and this deals 2
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u/sethman3 12h ago
You would deal 5 damage and gain 4 life. Only the spell has lifelink, the extra 3 does not.
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u/F0eniX 12h ago
“If a red and white spell you control deals damage and also instructs you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker's last ability triggers twice.”