r/mtg • u/Borrachito254 • 12h ago

Discussion Am I missing something?

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Gallery image

I swapped out Flicker for Daydream in my Pantz deck, seems like a no-brainer. I imagine daydream would destroy flicker’s value, but it doesn’t. Am I missing something?

Edit: What I missed was READING THE CARD. Thanks everyone. Here’s my deck list if interested: https://moxfield.com/decks/lqdn-32zTkue0SjYAYy9-g

493 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

114 comments sorted by

789

u/Mybunsareonfire 12h ago

Permanent vs creature

293

u/kranitoko 12h ago

Also "you control" specifically on Daydream, which means, for whatever reason, you can't flicker someone else's thing like "Flicker" can.

155

u/EquivalentOk6028 11h ago

Flicker their [[phage the untouchable]] to make them lose the game

-35

u/-dus Always bet on 9h ago

who's playing phage without etb blockers

36

u/doublestack12 9h ago

Don’t judge me.

6

u/FarmerTwink 7h ago

Holy shit I never realized those could be beneficial for me until now

6

u/NotTheAlfa Ygra goes yum yum 9h ago

what etb blocker do you have in mono black?

16

u/East_Natural_9446 9h ago

[[Torpor Orb]]

3

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 9h ago

Torpor Orb - (G) (SF) (txt)

9

u/A_bicyclette 8h ago

[[Platinium angel]] is probably the second card you add to a Phage deck after the orb, but I'll admit it's very specific to her etb.

1

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 8h ago

Platinium angel - (G) (SF) (txt)

60

u/brodey420 11h ago

I have flickered something stolen from me to get it back in my flicker deck. So like they take control I “exile target permanent return it under owners control” my friend runs a deck around [[agent of treachery]]

10

u/Mybunsareonfire 12h ago

Also great point

12

u/HarperFae 11h ago

Yeah being able to flicker other people's stuff can have some neat applications.

I used to have a deck that would use [[Conjured Currency]] to steal a land every turn then take it back with [[Venser, the Sojourner]], for instance.

2

u/purpleturtlehurtler 8h ago

That's a cool combo that I need to put into a deck.

4

u/cmstlist 11h ago

Certainly could be useful for resetting an opponent's creature with Auras and/or counters back to base. Or their planeswalker that is almost ready for its ultimate.

26

u/Fury_Fury_Fury 11h ago

who up flickering someone else's thing rn

11

u/Valance23322 11h ago

It would remove any counters/equipment/auras, return stolen creatures, and some creatures might have a negative ETB effect e.g. [[Eater of Days]]

5

u/Mybunsareonfire 10h ago

I've also flickered others creatures when they tried to protect them from board wipes via [[Tamiyo's Safekeeping]] or similar spells

1

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 11h ago

Eater of Days - (G) (SF) (txt)

0

u/jambrand 8h ago

who up torpering their orb rn

-1

u/Pod5f 10h ago

Notably it's also kind of removal on any token because they don't come back.

110.5g A token that has left the battlefield can't move to another zone or come back onto the battlefield. If such a token would change zones, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases to exist the next time state-based actions are checked; see rule 704

7

u/Phlygone 10h ago

It does specify non-tokens on Flicker though.

3

u/Psychological_Ad1518 11h ago

No flickering an opponents Voltron creature for you

1

u/locke_zero 10h ago

Flicker somebody's Phage

2

u/Pogbagnole 8h ago

Flicker someone else’s [[Lotus Field]] and watch them cry

1

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 8h ago

Lotus Field - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/RemarkableCard6475 7h ago

...I did think this was possible because it has hexproof. Can't be the target of spells and abilities.

1

u/Malacro This is User Editable 6h ago

[[Shadowspear]]

1

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 6h ago

Shadowspear - (G) (SF) (txt)

109

u/Crazyflames 12h ago

Also very old rare vs very recent common.

27

u/Borrachito254 12h ago

This is what I COMPLETELY in fact missed lol, thanks.

8

u/Senorpapell 11h ago

You can do some funny things if your opponents are trying to do things to cheat around bad etb’s.

-17

u/UncleNoodles85 12h ago edited 11h ago

Also an instant versus a sorcery.

I misread the card because I'm stupid. That isn't a good enough reason to delete though so I'm leaving it up anyway. My apologies.

13

u/TenebTheHarvester 11h ago

Pretty sure they’re both sorceries

7

u/infamouspaghetti 11h ago

Both are sorceries

150

u/ScaryFoal558760 12h ago

Not all permanents are creatures 👍

21

u/DRW0813 7h ago

As a green player I disagree. Or more, all permanents should be creatures

5

u/Unique-Mystique87 7h ago

You forget Green's favourite permanent, lands

3

u/ScaryFoal558760 6h ago

[[dryad arbor]]

[[living plane]]

2

u/KaiserBear 4h ago

[[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa]]

3

u/ScaryFoal558760 6h ago

Be the change you want to see

[[mycosynth lattice]]

[[titania's song]]

41

u/WoWSchockadin 11h ago

Flicker is much more versatile as it not only lets you flicker any permanent card, but also those you don't control. Think about removing a bunch of counters, destroying attached auras, de-attach equipments, getting back stolen card...

3

u/bloodmagik 7h ago

Awesome use cases

53

u/MaD_DoK_GrotZniK 12h ago

Flicker can bounce any permanent, not just a creature. Also, value isn't based solely on power. There's a market for classic cards that are more difficult to find. Especially difficult to find in near mint condition. Personally, I grew up with flicker playing a major part in my enchantments deck during Urza's and would probably put it in a deck just for the nostalgia.

15

u/Emotional_Honey8497 11h ago

Commander likes redundancy as well.  Even if ephemerate and daydream are better for the deck, a third card is nice.  

5

u/MaD_DoK_GrotZniK 7h ago

What about SECOND blinkfast!

8

u/meatpopsicle42 11h ago

‘Blink’, not ‘bounce’.
Just for clarity, colloquially speaking, ‘bounce’ has always meant ‘to return a permanent to its owner’s hand’.

9

u/MaD_DoK_GrotZniK 7h ago

This is the most considerate correction I've ever gotten. I hope your next meal is seasoned perfectly and served at your preferred temperature.

15

u/Pod5f 12h ago edited 11h ago

Perm vs creature. You control vs any. Old rare vs new uncommon. Daydream may very well be better for your use case at 1 less mana, but fringe cases like effectively exiling an opponents token can also be useful.

Do you know of Cloudshift / Ephemerate as well? At instant speed, I'd prefer those over Daydream too

3

u/Borrachito254 11h ago

I have both in the deck. I have my Pantz deck focused on blinking.

18

u/ExistenceRevoked 12h ago

Imo I think the best value flicker is Ephemerate for ETB creature effects

6

u/Nyrony 11h ago

I would say you can run [[Ghostway]] in almost any etb deck with white in it too. The amount of triggers you got from exiling your creature boardstate is just another bonus on top of having board wipe protection.

2

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 11h ago

Ghostway - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/Borrachito254 11h ago

I didn’t know this existed. I’ll have to add it to a wishlist!

1

u/Nyrony 7h ago

It’s definitely a nice and cheap old card that can still bring value to the table. I love to run stuff like that in Celes for additional etb mill & protection of my core pieces. Or in token decks with stuff like Mirkwood that pings on etb.

1

u/Impossible_Camera302 7h ago

the more current version of this card is eerie interlude

-1

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

2

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 11h ago

Ephemerate - (G) (SF) (txt)

6

u/Apprehensive_Call790 12h ago

If I had to guess it’s an old printing without reprint and/or having more of the same in flicker decks is nice.. also non token permanent is much broader than creature

3

u/betacow 9h ago

Sometimes even strictly worse cards cost more money because of lower availability.

Best example that comes to mind is [[imperial seal]] and [[vampiric tutor]]

4

u/Harrycrapper 12h ago

You can use flicker on an opponent's permanent as well as your own and it's not just restricted to creatures. If you're just intending to use it on your creatures, Daydream will be better. But Flicker is just more versatile, rarer, and older, so lower supply.

3

u/VisionsOfClarity 11h ago

The rare one let's you flicker [[Cursed Mirror]] the other doesn't:)

1

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 11h ago

Cursed Mirror - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/lixilisk 7h ago

Or [[gilded drake]]

1

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 7h ago

gilded drake - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/VisionsOfClarity 6h ago

That's so funny lol holy shit

3

u/Nutsnboldt 11h ago

Flicker?! I hardly know her!

3

u/LorenzosBenz 11h ago

Yeah, about 27 years.

2

u/I-Kneel-Before-None 11h ago

Por qué no los dos?

1

u/Borrachito254 11h ago

I will actually consider putting it back. I didn’t realize the difference. I do run quite a bit of other blink cards though.

1

u/I-Kneel-Before-None 11h ago

I was mostly just joking. There are lots of cards that do the same thing. Reasons to buy this and thus keeping the value up include, you are running all the better versions and want another, you have nostalgia for that card in particular, are playing a blink deck in a format that doesn't allow newer cards, you wanted to collect cards from that set. All kinds of reasons. But yes, if you just plan to blink creatures, there are many better versions. Not all blink decks are creature based. See [[Estrod's Invocation]] for a fun enchantment blink deck.

1

u/Ok-Temporary-8243 11h ago

It depends on if you'd actually get the value from the optionality. Like I include it sometimes in my decks as a way to trigger landfall, especially since the land doesn't enter tapped. Being able to use cradle another time can be enough to just endgame an entire playgroup from out of nowhere

2

u/Phantomime_e 11h ago

wait until you hear about [[ephemerate]]

1

u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 11h ago

ephemerate - (G) (SF) (txt)

3

u/Additional_Gene_211 11h ago

Flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker. I HAVE WON AGAIN LEWS THERIN

2

u/secretbison 6h ago

Flicker was the first-ever card to do what it does, and like many cards of this category, it was overcosted. The fact that Flicker and Daydream are sorceries absolutely destroys their utility. The best spells that do this are instants like [[Flicker of Fate]] or the best card in this category, [[Ephemerate]]. This is so they can save creatures from removal or be used as combat tricks.

3

u/xytlar 12h ago

Any permanent…. Including opponent. Other is just a creature you control

2

u/habitat0789 11h ago

very few flicker effects for opponents stuff!

-3

u/chase128 11h ago

Do you mean a permanent an opponent controls? That's correct. But you can't target an opponent with Flicker

2

u/xytlar 11h ago

Yes. I thought that was clear. Opponents are not permanents.

1

u/EmpressLenneth 11h ago

Flickering a saga or a battle is quite useful and not as easy as youd want. Except the saga creatures. Its quite useful to be able to do

1

u/grimsleeper4 11h ago

Power creep.

Also, this is used to be a very rare effect without too much utility. Now it is more common and more useful given the flood of creatures with ETB effects.

1

u/MrWrym 10h ago

Flicker bounces Digada for fun shenanigans with Underworld Breach. Pretty spicy.

1

u/HekateDunamis 10h ago

Wtf, ive always heard the term flicker, but I didn't know there was an actual card NAMED Flicker... let alone hitting any permanent type. Might add to one of my decks

1

u/BlindingDart 1h ago

FYI: Most Magic jargon comes from older cards. Wrath from [[Wrath of God]], mill form [[Millstone]], Loot from [[Merfolk Looter]], fog from [[Fog]], etc.

1

u/brodey420 9h ago

Also permanents means planeswalkers too I’ve flickered my opponents planeswalkers when I can’t get damage through and I don’t want them to get an emblem.

1

u/Comwan 8h ago

Ok no one has said this but Daydream is much better for Pantz. Pants returns with more power allowing for a larger discover. Plus in commander flashback is way more useful to do it a second time.

(Also there is a meme deck that’s 95 lands for a pantz semi-insta win using the +1/+1 buff)

1

u/Mindless-Fee-1874 7h ago

I hardly know her

1

u/Impossible_Camera302 7h ago

flicker of fate even better as it's an instant.

1

u/Scary_Republic3317 6h ago

Permanent vs Creature and any permanent, so you can flicker your opponent's stuff

1

u/ProfessorLurker 5h ago

I have a deck that wins by flickering a [[donate]]ed [[Illusions of Grandeur]]. Its surprisingly tough to beat in multiplayer since everytime you pull it off you not only kill someone but gain 40 life.

1

u/dev_ops_guy 1h ago

Flicker for so many reasons is better, I didn't read everyone's response, but you can also get your permanents back if someone stole it. Permanent vs creature and any vs you control.

-15

u/Y0U-D0NT-KN0W-WH0 10/10 Protection from Everything 12h ago

Power Creep.

Simply put, old card worse because new card better.

6

u/Conscious_Clerk_2675 12h ago

old card can flicker any permanent

-3

u/Y0U-D0NT-KN0W-WH0 10/10 Protection from Everything 12h ago

Niche, but true.

6

u/Conscious_Clerk_2675 12h ago

niche? lol, lmao even

-2

u/Y0U-D0NT-KN0W-WH0 10/10 Protection from Everything 12h ago

I ask this genuinely: except for generic “target” protection and infinite combos, what other common uses are there for flicking a non-creature permanent?

2

u/HolyWightTrash 7h ago

unattach any equipment your opponent controls, removing any charge counters from artifacts, and not to mention all the things it can do to your opponent's creatures