r/mtg • u/Belteshazzar98 • 1h ago
Rules Question Does Princess Yue work with clones how I think she does?
If I have Princess Yue on the battlefield and I play a copy creature like [[Clone]] it could enter as a copy of her and then the Legend Rule would put one of them into the graveyard. If I put the clone into the graveyard it would trigger her ability to return to the battlefield as a land named Moon that gains the ability to tap for colorless. But since it can enter as a copy of any creature on the battlefield it would return as a copy of something (applied on layer 1), is named Moon overriding it's previous name (applied layer 3), is a land overriding it's previous types (applied layer 4) and gains T: add {C} without losing any of the abilities of what it copied (applied layer 6).
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u/SecretlyET 1h ago edited 15m ago
Correct. In fact, there was an episode of Commander at Home where Tomer built a deck around basically this about a month ago
Edit because of the upvotes: Nice
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u/Belteshazzar98 1h ago
Awesome, thanks. I'll have to check it out.
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u/SecretlyET 1h ago
Just went back to check. Episode 102. Tomer's commander turns into the moon. That's rough buddy.
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u/Smiththehammer 1h ago
Yup! This is the main synergy that any Yue deck uses. I've been playing it for a couple months and its a ton of fun. There's tons of decklists you can find that build around this.
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u/loluo 1h ago edited 1h ago
I'm new to magic and I got really confused when you started describing the stack so in a explain like I'm five. What exactly is this doing?
Edit: thank you all for the explanations!
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u/Ragewind82 1h ago
Clone Yue dies, then comes back to battlefield. But because it's a clone, it gets to pick a new creature to copy, while also becoming a moon that tape for colorless mana.
So you could have a Moon that copies Akroma, and the land would have flying, protection, haste, trample, vigilance, while just being a land named Moon.
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u/Nerdwrapper 1h ago
Or you could snag a static or active ability, like Krenko tapping to double goblins, or Ovika making goblin tokens when you cast noncreature spells
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u/MageKorith 19m ago
Or [[Argothian Elder]] who then proceeds to untap itself and another land ad infinitum for infinite mana.
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u/Nerdwrapper 13m ago
Ooh, that one is spicy, infinite mana, and in whatever color you want if you’re running command tower
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u/MageKorith 4m ago
Don't get me started on what you can do with infinite Scry 2 if you then sacrifice the original Yue (noting that your clone-moon isn't legendary due to copying Argothian Elder).
Actually, do. Are you familiar with Deque sorts and the REL guidelines on slow play?
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u/SecretlyET 1h ago
End result is that I end up with a legendary land named Moon, that can both tap for a colorless and has the abilities of a creature on the field in addition to a Princess Yue on your board
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u/Belteshazzar98 19m ago
Not legendary unless the clone is copying something legendary. Nothing about Yue makes the Moon legendary.
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u/Smiththehammer 1h ago
This doesn't involve the stack, but rather layers.
Layers are a system the describe how cards can be modified, and in what order those modifications take place.
It is inherently complex, but there are many videos online breaking it down if you are curious to learn it. However, if you are new to magic and dont plan on playing a deck that truly relies on layers, I wouldn't make this a priority.
In the simplest way, the clone can choose any legal permanent and become a land with the textbox of the chosen permanent, that can also tap for colorless.
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u/Human-03 1h ago
if you have a clone enter as her it gains her text box, then because there are 2 legends Yue’s the legend rule happens and you must sacrifice one, when you sacrifice the clone it has her text that says to return it to the battlefield as a land. when it returns it’s a new game object and can clone something else but the Yue effect makes it a land named moon and lose all other types. With this you can very hard to remove lands with powerful text
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u/Quintingent 1h ago
The legend rule does not sacrifice. Sorry if that sounds pedantic but it's a common misconception that leads to people thinking it interacts with "on sacrifice" triggers or "can't be sacrificed" effects.
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u/Lonely-Cap3569 1h ago
Because of the order in which effects that change the qualities of a card apply are quriky, Clone comes down as Yue. Dies because there are 2 "Yue" on your feild. Then it comes back as "moon" with moon's tap effect.
BUT when it re-enters, the effect to become a copy reapplies. So it becomes a copy of Yue, but it is named Moon. Meaning it has the abilities of both and can stay on the field because even though it is a copy of Yue, it's not named Yue.
Anyone can feel free to correct any mistakes.
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u/Quantum_Physics231 48m ago
True however it can actually be a copy of any creature not just Yue iirc
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u/vagabond_dilldo 42m ago
Yup. The actual powerful part of this combo is being able to copy a creature with strong passive/triggered ability while still being able to tap for mana. The clone is also able to dodge most removal as it'd be just a land.
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u/Belteshazzar98 1h ago
Layers and the stack are two very different things.
Layers are a complicated rules thing where certain effects always take precedent over others to prevent nonsensical dependency loops where abilities start to apply and then stop applying, but them stopping applying causes them to start applying again or things like that. Most of the time it is pretty intuitive, but sometimes you end up with weird things like [[Toph, the First Metalbender]] making all nontoken artifacts into lands in addition to their other types even if she lost all abilities from something like [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] since her type changing ability applies before ability changing abilities.
The order is
Layer 1: Copy effects.
Layer 2: Control changing effects.
Layer 3: Text changing effects.
Layer 4: Type changing effects.
Layer 5: Color changing effects.
Layer 6: Ability changing effects.
Layer 7: Power and Toughness changing effects.
Changes on a higher number layer cannot ever cause a change on a lower number layer.
As for the stack, in case you don't understand that either instead of just getting the names mixed up, the stack is a zone where you put spells and abilities waiting to be resolved, first in last out. Between each object resolving there is another round of priority passed around where players get a chance to respond. Pretty basic stuff with the only thing that isn't immediately intuitive is that triggered abilities that trigger at the same time are put on the stack in order of active player first and then go around in turn order to resolve in reverse turn order and any player who is putting multiple triggered abilities on the stack at the same time can choose what order they go on.
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u/LoseAnotherMill Kros Propagandist 1h ago
[[Princess Yue]] has an ability that returns her from the graveyard as a land. If you use a creature that enters as a copy of another creature (e.g. [[Clone]]), you can have it enter as a copy of Princess Yue. Because Princess Yue is Legendary, you can't have two of her under your control at one time, so either her or the Clone will go to the graveyard; for purposes of this gimmick, we're picking the Clone. When it died, it had an ability that says it returns as the Moon with that ability, so it starts to come back. However, before it enters the field, the Clone has its ability that lets it enter as a copy of a creature, so pick another creature (usually one with a "When this creature becomes tapped" ability, such as [[Mechan Navigator]] or a creature with a cool static ability, such as [[Kira, Great Glass-Spinner]]). For purposes of this exercise, we'll say Mechan Navigator.
The Clone will enter as a copy of Mechan Navigator because characteristic defining abilities ("enters as a copy of") happen on layer 1. However, it still has the the rest of the "Come back as the Moon" ability to resolve, so while it normally would also be named Mechan Navigator, it actually gets renamed as "Moon" (layer 3), is a land and not a creature (layer 4) and gains the ability to tap for colorless mana (layer 6). However, it still keeps Mechan Navigators ability to let you draw a card when you tap it, so every time you tap it for mana, you also get to draw a card. Because it's a land, there's not much that other players will be able to do to it.
The "layers" here are how to resolve conflicts in continuous effects that are trying to change a particular object - in this case the Clone's continuous effect that makes it a different creature and Princess Yue's continuous effect that makes her into the Moon. More details about the layers are in the rules under section 613.
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u/Scicageki 59m ago
Pretty surprising you thought this is how you thought it worked! ahah
By the way, yes it does.
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u/Any-Supermarket-4190 1h ago
Ohhhhh yes, one of my favorite commander decks since Avatar came out. Wait until you throw in a [[homunculus horde]] to clone as a land and your draws ramp you
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u/Belteshazzar98 53m ago
I thought type changing abilities weren't copiable values since copy effects are layer 1 and type changing effects are layer 6. Am I missing something that make it ramp you instead of just giving a creature?
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u/Any-Supermarket-4190 43m ago
I do stand corrected. It got brought up as that when I first pulled out the deck by somebody in the pod, but getting the base of the card makes sense too. Never got to pull it off on arena, so was never corrected but see it came up in the mtg rules page a lil over a month ago. Thanks for letting me know!
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u/Key_Commercial_8169 56m ago
I wanted to add her to my Sakashima deck because of that, so I could have multiple different Moons copying different things, but unfortunately I wouldn't have a way to kill the Yue clones without the legend rule applying
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u/BrigliaArt 55m ago
But if I use another clone and make another moon but copy a different creature do I still get to keep both moons or will they all stay legendary or is that no longer the case
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u/Belteshazzar98 25m ago
Nothing about Yue makes the Moon legendary aside from her typeline. If the clone copies something that isn't legendary on it's return, it won't be legendary.
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u/Legitimate-Habit4920 47m ago
Baumi's video has a pretty good explanation of the Yue clone interaction, and discusses deckbuilding around it.
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u/Redkorne 35m ago
Still mad they didn't reprint imprisoned in the moon and the artwork was her death you know
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u/Flauschziege 59m ago
I am to dumb for this game.
Even after reading the explanation, I do not understand why she would lose legendary when it literally states on the card that she remains legendary.
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u/Belteshazzar98 50m ago
She doesn't lose legendary. There is simply nothing in the rules that say she gains or loses any supertypes so her ability doesn't change legendary status. If something were to be returned to the battlefield by her ability that wasn't already legendary, such as a clone, there is nothing about her ability that would make it be legendary.
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u/Majestikz 28m ago
I could be wrong, but Yue's ability only states it retains Legendary. The clone returning would have to enter as a non-legendary creature or a Legendary if you don't control the original.
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u/Muted-Soil1448 2m ago
Just a thought - I’d avoid building this as a B2. Anecdotally, my pod doesn’t use any land removal in B2 as that was viewed as something belonging comfortably in B3 and up. If that’s also the case with your pod, Yue is making copies of things as a land which means that copy isn’t subject to standard removal.
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u/mtgcf MtG CardFetcher 1h ago
Clone - (G) (SF) (txt)