r/securityguards • u/Az8feb • 2d ago
Question from the Public Do security firm owners face problems when security guard sleeps
Recently one of my friend from the us was doing part time work in their local store where he saw a night security guard sleeping , I am like isn't that their job most of the days that person is seen sleeping , like i understand it's difficult if you want try to stay awake whole night but is it a big issue security guard owners are facing any firm or operations owners
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u/PreviousZone6742 Warm Body 2d ago
You should never be seen sleeping. Sleeping is a issue but need to rotate people out for a scheduled sleep time.
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u/tommydelgato 2d ago
great way to lose any job.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Exactly because I heard a lot of nightshift guards actually sleep which goes unnoticed and the poor owners of the agency might get sued it feels bad dude , now you cannot even say anything because it's difficult staying awake at 3am 😂 would love to know what this people owner of agencies think
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u/SilatGuy2 2d ago
People owner of agencies ? What are you even going on about ?
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u/Fuzard 2d ago
No clue, OP keeps using the word owner over and over and says he wants to talk to an owner but their question has been answered over and over here
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u/SilatGuy2 2d ago
Frankly i dont know why people here are even entertaining this persons stupid post and questions. Actually i notice these types of stupid posts more and more lately.
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u/Shane-Dad-underfire Management 2d ago
Not all security companies are owned by mega corporations. There are private security companies that operate in small regions most of them evolved from extortion rackets though.
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u/Several-Agent6831 2d ago
Sleeping on the job is considered a big issue but it's important to understand that security firms outsource their services to others. Whilst your manager may not mind you taking a 20 minute nap or going on your phone, when you're working on a client site then you have to follow the client's instructions.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Do the security guard owners it the agency owners do something ? Like are they even finding something to deal with that
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u/RobinGood94 2d ago
If you are the security firm owner, you have several levels of management below you. It’s their responsibility to address the issue and satisfy the client.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
They do like I would really like to know few owners
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u/RobinGood94 2d ago
Knowing them wouldn’t really feel like anything special to be honest. If you knew the owner of a restaurant, would it seem interesting? Hardly. The restaurant knows the profit margin per pizza and the cost basis of the hourly employees making them.
Your security company owner knows the profit margins of each security guard he/she is billing clients for, and the cost basis of the uniforms, training, overtime, etc.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Makes sense again I would like to work on this problem with them only if they find this is a psin an actual one
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u/RobinGood94 2d ago
As a random member of the public, there’s nothing you can do outside of reporting. If you know the security company name, you can find the branch office information online. They’re not going to work with you to resolve it, because you’re not the client. They might take care of it or they might not.
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u/RadiantDiscussion886 2d ago
Was not able to post the Pic, but i was site supervisor at a chemical refinery. Had a picture sent to me of a guard caught sleeping, out of uniform working. The picture was sent up the chain of command. Not sure if he got fired, but he was removed quickly from site because there was a chance of losing the contract
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u/InformationSuperb978 Management 2d ago
I've seen SLA penalties of $5,000 each time a guard falls asleep on site.
Honestly, 99% of the contracts I've seen have some type of clause addressing staff sleeping on site.
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u/LegalGlass6532 2d ago
What’s your motive here? You’re outside the U.S. so are you trying to advise your friend to tell on the guard and wonder what will be done about it?
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Yes I am outside us , just wanted to know if there was a precaution or something taken if the guard sleeps like I feel bad for the agency owners since they might get sued
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u/LegalGlass6532 2d ago
It’s impossible to say what the repercussions are in this situation without knowing the exact circumstances and company names, their policies and the state this happened in.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Makes sense do you know any owners like small or medium ones who own this would love to know this more
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u/LegalGlass6532 2d ago
Who own what? You’ve given no details.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Sorry I meant to say do you know any security firm owners small or medium team ones
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u/LegalGlass6532 2d ago
They aren’t going to be able to tell you what a specific company does in a specific state. You need to ask your friend the name of the company the employee represents and then who the employee’s employer is contracted by. Then contact that company and ask them. It’s more complicated than you realize.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Ahh seriously dude I don't know I wanted to know from if any owners were in this sub
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u/LegalGlass6532 2d ago
Maybe you should make another post asking if there are any owners, but they aren’t going to tell you what company they own because this is anonymous Reddit and even if they say they own a company you have no way to know they’re telling the truth.
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u/Shane-Dad-underfire Management 2d ago
Overnight posts that run the risk of taking a nap will often do a scan in or check in system that requires the guard to activate something that sends time stamped data to the client or security agency. I recently argued and was massively downvoted by a bunch of folks in this sub because I said you shouldnt be on your phone reading a book or taking a nap while on duty. Seems folks would rather play bruce Wayne all day and sleep as batman all night.
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u/Mirror_333 2d ago
Our company is almost entirely overnight shifts. We have had some problems with guards sleeping. We have no verbal warning. Write up on the first offense, likely fired if it happens again. We do have a loose but official policy that if a guard calls their Supervisor and says they cannot stay awake. We come relieve them for the rest of their shift. I'll get one or two guards a year take me up on it. We probably fire one to three guards a year for sleeping on the job.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Do you take any precaution so that they don't sleep like I feel it's a big problem and it's a natural problem would like to know more and connect with you
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u/Mirror_333 2d ago
Supervisors make random checks on each site throughout the night. Both to check on the guards, but also to give them a chance to take a break off-site. We also use a POI system. Each guard has an app on their company phone and uses that phone to scan different locations throughout the sites. The reports generated by the app let us know when and where a guard was at the time they hit the scan-point. With that information, we can see if a guard has been making adequate rounds or had long stretches of inactivity. Either way, we'll talk to them. Thank them for the solid rotation of patrols or ask why they aren't making their way around the site as often as they should be.
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u/Nesefl_44 2d ago
Yes and no.
Some posts are out of site and serve no purpose other than an insurance write off. Nobody cares if that guard is sleeping. The security company and client make/save money either way.
Then there are legitimate posts where the guard is actually serving a purpose, or is highly visible to others, and a sleeping guard actually poses a security threat. Owners can lose contracts in cases like this.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
Oh is it ? Do you know these kind of owners
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u/Nesefl_44 2d ago
Have known a couple of owners of smaller companies. Have worked in the industry for a bit. Some posts/contracts are significantly more valuable/important than others. Its a business in the end. Profit is all that matters.
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u/bluesbynumber 2d ago
In some places, an armed guard found sleeping is a violation of secure firearms laws. In my area the city cops like to charge armed guards with a crime if they find them asleep.
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u/KHASeabass 2d ago
Most places I've worked, sleeping was just an instant termination. The only exception was when I was on a disaster relief security team for a hurricane. Shifts were 12s, but if your relief couldn't get to you because of the conditions, you could be stuck at your post longer. All posts were a minimum of 2 officers, sometimes more. If you ended up having to work past your 12, you were alloted "on-duty rest time" and you basically just had to work out sleeping shifts with your coworkers. We actually had beds on site for just that occasion.
Only one time, one of our guys was supposed to be awake and we found him snoozing hard in his car. I just took his shift and we covered his windows and windshield in black garbage bags so when he woke up it was pitch black and he had no idea what was going on. The hijinks were a lot more fun than someone getting in real trouble and getting sent home.
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u/xNarutobleach3000x 2d ago
How you get a job like that.
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u/KHASeabass 2d ago
There are a lot of companies that have disaster response teams. Some of them pick current employees, some keep people on standby for a disaster contract, and some will hire people in groups when they need bodies to fill one of those contracts.
Of course, it's all dependent on if something happens that is bad enough to need security team deployments.
Different companies run different shifts. We worked 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, so at minimum you were getting 40-hours of regular pay and 44-hours of overtime every week. Contracts were 30-days and you could extend as many times as you wanted and as long as work was available. Lodging was covered and you got a weekly food per diem in cash.
Generally, you can just google "disaster response security officer," "hurricane response security," etc.
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u/xNarutobleach3000x 2d ago
But you need to live in that state or they recruit from other states?
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u/KHASeabass 1d ago
They can often recruit out of state. A lot of it depends on licensing. If affected states waive security licensing, allow for out of state guard licenses, etc., its easier to get accepted to those roles from out of state. Some other states hold hard and fast on licensing requirements (particularly armed licenses) and they are more likely to try to recruit in- state only. In my case, I traveled about 3000 miles from my home state to go to my contract.
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u/billzy02 2d ago
In no scenario should a guard on duty should be seen sleeping. If they're on break I will let anyone have a rest but what about if there is a emergency or a security breach. If client finds out then that would be negligence. In the UK if breaks are paid for then guards can be called to help out if needed. If their breaks are not paid for then they can sleep and come back when their break is over. Guards have been let go for sleeping on the job but it depends on the supervisor. Some will give warnings so you don't do it again but there some who will report you to higher management to get you fired or removed from a site.
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u/Shane-Dad-underfire Management 2d ago
Yes, the misconduct of an employee can result in legal action for their firm.
If one of our guys were caught asleep at the wheel we are in trouble, if something happens while they are asleep we are on the hook.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
damn dude i would love to sole this issue atleast try too , you work in those agencies or something like that
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u/Shane-Dad-underfire Management 2d ago
I own a private military contracting company, our guys when not actively working contracts in warzones do private security for clients and our family, they can also just take vacations or do training or pick up instructor contracts for law enforcement agencies or similar organizations.
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u/Az8feb 2d ago
is it okay if i do talk in private
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u/Shane-Dad-underfire Management 2d ago
I dont mind, but if you're looking for a job we only hire ex military from recognized countries. You must he proficient in at least 2 languages and you have to have a clean passport, no Euro red flags.
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u/Az8feb 1d ago
Understandable I am looking to know more if this industry if you are interested in sharing your knowledge
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u/Shane-Dad-underfire Management 1d ago
I dont mind. Like I said in another comment though, many companies have a solution to the sleeping guard situation but not all companies employ the measures.
The measures being a sign in process that requires guards at the post to check in at. Some companies who do employ this method have them do it a few times a shift or at the regular intervals or even having a prompt that randomly occurs that they need to respond to, failure to respond a certain amount of times results in disciplinary action.
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u/Az8feb 1d ago
Just want to know something let's say you don't need to employ a overseers for this job and you don't need hardware to buy extra would you think that would be something interesting for security agencies owners to buy
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u/Shane-Dad-underfire Management 1d ago
All you're looking to do is supplement one method with another. If your method is most costly or involves another service then no one will invest in it.
Specifically no one is going to allow a third party to know all their posts, the number of people, and the times they are on and off.
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u/Educational-Sleep113 1d ago
Huge props going out to those who explained the legal aspects of what can potentially happen to the owner/ operator of security firms. This knowledge isn't well known down the line to the field staff.
Falling asleep while on duty, is just bad optics. Most clients won't pause and try to find out the reason why their guard fell asleep. They don't care if it's; due to illness, insomnia, medication, environmental factors, such as low lighting and monitors placed too close, lack of mobility. They also don't care if it's due to that person covering +4 or + 8 extra hours. They see it rightly as a liability to them and their facilities. We are supposed to mitigate and lower liabilities not creating them by dereliction of duties.
I will admit that working overnight, I have fallen asleep on occasions and was given proper counseling for it. Thankfully, I have a client that values my work and a company that was willing to find out why( pneumonia) and both kept me where I'm at.
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u/Az8feb 1d ago
Makes sense but I would also say there are people who blantanly fall asleep knowing no one can see them
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u/Educational-Sleep113 1d ago
There certainly are those who do. As the second commentator has said, there are huge differences. Went to sleep means that one decides that taking a nap,is judt part of the job.
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u/Red57872 Dunning–Kruger Specialist 1d ago
I think a big part of it is "falling asleep" vs "went to sleep", as in someone who falls asleep by accident vs someone who deliberately chooses to ignore their duties by going to sleep. As a client, if an otherwise good guard falls asleep, I'm willing to work with the company on it. If a guard deliberately goes to sleep and ignores their duties, that guard will never be allowed on our site again, and we're not paying for any hours that they were ignoring their duties.
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u/Educational-Sleep113 1d ago
Thank you for being one of those few and I agree with you. There is a difference. Some people will come in and make a nap part of the routine and, no one should be paid for that.
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u/DeckerXT 2d ago
I straight up called our boss on sleepers. I'll talk to you once. That is MY paycheck you are risking making me and the company look bad.
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u/Any-Law135 1d ago
I own a security company and this is a huge issue. It invalidates our insurance and risks losing contracts thus providing no more work for those people working for my company
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u/WinterFox333 2d ago
It is what it is - Until you can human biology to become nocturnal people are always gonna get sleepy in overnight shift.
You have to understand we’re not on the brink of war no one‘s gonna die if someone gets a little bit sleepy.
And the flipside of it is, you can fire everybody until eventually you don’t have nobody to work your overnight shift.
So first part it is what it is - i’m not saying it shouldn’t be addressed. I’m just saying you gotta find out who you really have and what they’re really willing to do. If you have a dedicated officer, do you have GOLD!!?
But if you have 20 numb nuts, that would blow the place up, no matter what that’s what you got -
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u/RobinGood94 2d ago
Typically, sleeping is seen as a direct breach of contracted services/guidelines.
When you are asleep you’re not:
A deterrent.
Observant.
Mobile.
Protective.
Etc
Most MSAs (Master Service Agreements) cover the expectation from the client and legally binding agreement from the security service provider. If a major loss, breach, etc happened while the guard was asleep, the guard company takes a massive hit legally speaking.
Typically the breach is “cured” by immediate actions by the guard company. Severe written discipline or immediate removal from that contract.
Caveat:
Late night operations are rarely held to the same standard. The senior client leadership isn’t there. The senior security leadership isn’t there. If it doesn’t get reported and no major incident happens as a result, it’s swept under the rug.
If the client did find out and it continued to happen with multiple guards, the contract will be terminated for cause. Insufficient service levels/breach of contract.