r/shadowdark • u/-dangeruss- • 2d ago
Using the crossbow.. over a normal bow
It doesn't make sense to me. Crossbow steals your movement to load. Does 1d6 damage..
If u simply like it, sure.. but you can't sell me on it
34
u/CJ-MacGuffin 2d ago
Historical analogue - longbow was always better but crossbow was easy to learn. That is why so many classes get it.
17
u/samurguybri 2d ago
Another advantage of an IRL crossbow is that it can stay loaded and this may give players diagetic advantages in certain situations.
2
u/ShortIntroduction879 16h ago
diegetic/ˌdīəˈjedik/Diegetic - belonging to or occurring within the created fictional world of a story, film, or game
Bro just out here throwing around "diegetic".
1
u/samurguybri 16h ago
Here I was throwing it around, sadly all misshapened in its spelling. Thanks for the correction.
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u/ShortIntroduction879 10h ago
Haha I literally just looked up the meaning and posted it for others. Wasn't a callout on the spelling. Always fun to learn a new word.
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u/josephrlewis 2d ago
Came to say something like this! It took years of training to make a military grade archer, primarily to build the strength need to string, draw, and control a 100+ pound warbow. But any weakling could windup and aim a crossbow!
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u/ThoDanII 2d ago
Historical speaking No IT was Not. English fairytales are Not history
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u/CJ-MacGuffin 1d ago
But the game is based on something. And longbows and crossbows are real things used in history. That's what I meant.
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u/DaddyBison 2d ago
If your a fighter, youre only picking a crossbow for flavor; Longbow is of course the superior option. But if youre a priest or a thief, you dont have the option for a longbow and a shortbow is only 1d4. Its best as a backup weapon, not your primary source of damage.
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u/Fistblastoff 2d ago
It's not in the RAW, but a crossbow can be used in certain situations that a bow can't. (Nearly) prone, attempted to fire one handed (I would incur a penalty but still), it can be rigged up as a trap, etc.
3
u/TACAMO_Heather 1d ago
I never let characters at my table fire a long or short bow at less than 10 feet range. Crossbows all day long.
4
u/j1llj1ll 2d ago
Shadowdark classes control access to weapons. Having access to more and better weapon choices becomes the privilege of the more martially proficient classes. Making the Fighter, with its ultra-premium weapon access of ALL the best fighting class.
4
u/ExchangeWide Joker & Thief 1d ago
A couple of things make the crossbow make more sense to me.
First, as others have mentioned, more classes can use it. Historically, that also tracks pretty well: crossbows generally required much less training than bows. A skilled archer might train for years, while a comparatively untrained levy could become dangerous with a crossbow much more quickly. The social threat was obvious enough that the Second Lateran Council in 1139 famously condemned the use of bows and crossbows against Christians. Part of what made the crossbow so unsettling to the elite was that a peasant with relatively little training could kill a heavily trained and expensively equipped knight from range.
The other part is that I think OSR weapons are meant to exist in the fiction, not just in the damage column. A crossbow can be held loaded, aimed from awkward positions, fired while prone or from behind cover, and used in situations where drawing a full bow might be difficult. The rules don’t need to spell out every one of those distinctions for them to matter at the table.
So yes, the bow is better if all you’re comparing is rate of fire. But if the situation favors the crossbow, let the fiction make that difference meaningful.
3
u/Few-Patient-8281 2d ago
In real life crossbows within close range has a lot more kinetic power, so in within close range in reality the die should have been switched. Within 20 feet or so a good crossbow has a chance at piercing plate armor. Longbow excels at keeping its power over longer range, and the fast drawtime. In reality bringing a longbow in a dungeon setting with many 30 square feet rooms would not make much sense, pretty sure they were for shooting arrows long distances across big battlefields.
This is d&d tho, so class and balance etc must be taken into account.
3
u/RandomDumbRedditUser 1d ago
I hear if you get caught hunting in the elven woods with a crossbow, you'll be punished, branded a poacher, and your hand will be removed from your arm.
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u/Kujias 2d ago
Yeah now that you mention it, the Longbow is 1d8 vs 1d6 but you forgo movement. I'm curious to hear what people believe are the benefits.
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u/Jonestown_Juice 2d ago
The ease of use is the benefit. Crossbow is point and shoot. Longbow takes ages to learn to use, requires significant skill.
1
u/Kujias 2d ago
Ooh I see other comments point it out, so this replaces some people that can't use longbow or shortbow. As in anyone can use crossbows?
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u/grumblyoldman 2d ago
Only Fighter and Ranger can use Longbow (and maybe Sea Wolf?) There's not many, is my point. Yes it's a better weapon in every mechanical metric, but there just aren't that many classes who are allowed to use one.
Crossbow is much more commonplace. It's better than a Shortbow (at the cost of movement), and in many cases it may be the only option the class has for ranged. Not counting thrown daggers, I suppose. Daggers are pretty common too.
3
u/Kazoshay1994 2d ago
Longbows are better, but some classes can only use crossbows. Priests can't use longbows but they can use crossbows. If you're a priest and you need a ranged attack then you'd probably want a crossbow until you can pick up the smite spell or something else.
1
u/-dangeruss- 2d ago
I like the restrictions. I play a ras-godai, scimitar only.. no short swords.. I presume because of where the class origin is.. but odd
I'll just do weapon Mastery or melee training downtime.. and get me a rapier.. d8 finesse weapon
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u/j1llj1ll 2d ago
It can be easier said than done to undertake Learning (p.91).
The really key part is the requirement to find 'a capable instructor who is willing to teach you'. To learn Rapier, for example, it might require that you travel to The City Of Masks since that's probably where most (all?) of the Rapier schools are. Then you need to convince a Master that you're a worthy student - which might require swearing allegiance to the school or faction, or committing to code of behaviour as part of the induction. And, of course, you need to pay them. The time required to make each Check can also be months, or even years for some skills.
Talk to your GM.
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u/Intrepid_Tie_2573 2d ago
As others Saïd, your class may make the crossbow your best ranged option. I also rule that the longbows a worse melee/close option than the crossbow, which can more easily break and is harder to hit with.
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u/ericvulgaris 1d ago
Wait until you discover the sling in the cursed scrolls.
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u/-dangeruss- 1d ago
That and a whip. Or a club... Never
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u/ericvulgaris 1d ago
Slings are amazing. One hand for a torch or shield and the other you can rain death on someone! Don't knock a d4. 2/3s of the time you're basically a d6 bow that rolled low.
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u/sleepybrett 1d ago
crossbows should get a to-hit bonus, that was part of the whole reason they became widely popular, less strength and less skill to operate.
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u/frankb3lmont 16h ago
I don't know about you but drawing a longbow inside a corridor in a dungeon is not that easy. Crossbows are not meant to be great they are meant to be practical. I also believe in the new books there are rules that you can train yourself to deal more damage with specific weapons.
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u/sharpclod 1d ago
Many weapons in shadowdark are oddly gatekept.
Until you look at it as "this is a game". And as a game you may occasionally need a crane to suspend illusion of disbelief.
With that perspective, I have found it makes sense. I don't always agree, but I get the drift.
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u/MxFC 2d ago
Not all classes that can wield a bow can also wield a crossbow, so if you need a ranged weapon, it might be your best choice.