Why does Iseop's romance get so much hate?

[u/sujimach]

I honestly don’t really understand why Iseop gets so much hate. He’s not my favorite webtoon, so I’m not trying to defend it or anything. I just don’t think it’s a webtoon that deserves THIS much hate.

Yes, Iseop is childish, and there were definitely moments where his actions really annoyed me. But I actually enjoyed reading an ML who felt different, because there aren’t many childish MLs like him. Most of the time, MLs are portrayed as being almost unrealistically perfect.

Iseop was problematic in many ways. He could be selfish, and his childish behavior sometimes made him frustrating to watch, especially because of how it affected the FL. But honestly, I still think he’s better than some of the toxic MLs that everyone seems to love.

[u/brunhilde9219]

there are a lot of times where he can't take no as an answer and although I'm not defending the toxic mls that are worse than him, I'm not going to say that his childishness is endearing either

[u/sujimach → u/brunhilde9219]

Yes, there were definitely moments when his childish behavior was annoying. But I don’t think the FL gave him a clear “no” most of the time. She was usually very back and forth and seemed pretty indecisive about the relationship. I think that indecisiveness also caused some issues with how their relationship progressed.

That being said, I completely understand her dilemma when it comes to their relationship, and I think her feelings are totally valid.

[u/Fit-Preparation-7515 → u/sujimach]

If someone isn’t giving clear consent, that’s means they didn’t give consent. Wtf are you saying? „Was indecisive“ and „back and forth“. You literally said yourself she wasn’t sure and couldn’t accept the relationship with him as os, which means she didn’t consent. Consent isn’t hard.

If a random bear like man comes to you and says he wants to french kiss you, and you stand there in shock because you cannot understand what is happening and he takes your non answer as consent and goes to eat your mouth out is that your fault? It makes no difference who the other person is.

If they are your mom/dad/sibling or your husband/wife of 50 years or your own child, if anyone ignores your right to your own body, life and choices then they violated you. Lile if a grandparent kisses a grandchild thaz didn‘t want to be touched. A child that jokingly smaks their dads bum (yes they don’t know better, but they need to be taught that empathy to not overstep and hurt others boundaries anymore) or a wife who wants their husband, but he isn’t feeling it and she tries to corner him with her insecurities. Or a boyfriend who cries that he couldn’t get any for ages. Or someone who you are just seeing.

Consent is only real if the person said yes woth their mouth and certainty in their eyes.

That means if someone looks unenthusiastic, scared, or says ‚no‘ even if they later say yes again, THATS NOT CONSENT. Okay???? During the act someone can take consent away any second they want and you MUST stop because after that point it’s rpe. No matter what. You can then talk and they cna tell ypu what it was and if they just didn’t like something specific and would like to do it a different way or if they want to stop all over and that’s fine. If you need then go to the bathroom and help ypurself then sit and have a cozy cudling sesh or what. Like your mindet is so fckwd up. You literally wrote like a r\pist would…*

[u/sujimach → u/Fit-Preparation-7515]

I wasn’t referring to any specific event or person when I said that. I meant that, in general, the webtoon’s conflict and events progressed in this way. To be honest, Iseop’s Romance isn’t even a webtoon I particularly love. I know Iseop is way too pushy and that his behavior is a red flag.

But it’s also true that the FL has been attracted to and desired him from the very beginning, and the events in the story develop around that dynamic. She doesn’t accept the relationship logically because he’s her boss, but at the same time, she genuinely loves and desires him.

I’m pretty sure that if the second ML had been as pushy as Iseop, she probably would’ve slapped him.  Still, just to be clear, I’m not defending Iseop’s red-flag behavior. I’m simply saying that this was the dynamic and situation portrayed while reading the webtoon.

[u/AbyssL00ksBack → u/Fit-Preparation-7515]

That is definitely true in real life, but when discussing fiction, you are discussing emotions and actions also as a plot device. Because you, a real human, are aware that the fictional blob that doesn't exist in any way, and that their actions are both to replicate human actions and to serve as thematic or plot devices.

Key in point: dubcon with alcohol in fiction. Irl? don't repeat. In fiction? Alcohol is often used as a tool to either change a dynamic or as ways to lower defenses, open up closed characters, etc. Or the above, where someone is talking about the indecisiveness of a character--in fiction, because this is all fiction, unless the story is explicitly digging into consent, that might be used instead as indicators for character arcs and more.

 Like your mindet is so fckwd up. You literally wrote like a r\pist would…*

If anything, what is more fucked up is conflating a real person with a rapist because they are talking about a cartoon.

[u/Big_Fennel2186]

I love how facially expressive he is unlike many broody MLs.

[u/UneCitoyenneDuMonde]

I dropped this series pretty early on because, personally, I found it quite boring… I just lost interest. Unlike with other series, it didn't leave me eager to read the next chapter.

[u/ucha_varuna]

I literally fell in love with the artstyle and read it once, but literally it gives me the ick where the narrative made his indecisive and unresponsible ahh as 'cute and whiny subby ml' like no, hell nah. He also stalks her when she has her VACATION. Idk man, if my whiny boss follows me to my hometown. I would hang someone(and its not that they're at talkinh stage either, she doesnt rly feel anything other than tired.) Its a poorly written status difference I'd say.

[u/ucha_varuna → u/ucha_varuna]

And I do like red flag ML but I don't like when the author glorify the obvious bad manners. My favorite webtoon is dreaming freedom for god sake. Iseop doesn't really get any accountability to his actions and that what pissed me off the most

[u/Rogue_bae]

It was her saying “no” and him literally ignoring that.

[u/Lunasims92]

Bullied her, overworked her to the point she collapsed, forced himself on her when she was drunk and she told him to stop many times, when they had sex, seen her crying in pain made him more aroused… nah he sucks as a human being.

Also he’s not just childish or immature, he’s straight up acts like a toddler, he throws a tantrum when he doesn’t get what he wants.
There was a chapter where he literally pouts when he can’t touch her.

That comic telling the readers that a 34 year old man drinking his medicine in a sippy cup is hot and cute when in reality was the grossest thing I’ve seen in while, man I just can’t.

Yes there are other bad MLs too, but Iseop sucks just as much, just in a different way

[u/spartaxwarrior → u/Lunasims92]

...Is it about people with an adult baby fetish...?

[u/Lunasims92 → u/spartaxwarrior]

Honestly, at this point, it might be lol

[u/coco_choco07]

I haven't read this but from what I've seen apparently there is a non consensual sex scene? Like she is crying and telling him to stop and him continuing regardless?

Anyway i think most people hate due to that sex scene with dubious consent.

[u/nyxan_isinteres8 → u/coco_choco07]

Yeah I think the "no" and him going all blushy was what caused such slander.

[u/Vayvacation]

It had a major downfall after season 1

[u/SnugglePuggle94]

I dropped it after the icky first time scene as others have mentioned. I got past some of his childish antics up until then.

[u/b2k_09]

Many ppl complain about that sex scene, when I think I've come across this scene literally 10s of time in Non-smut Manhwa's. Like where they give ML every quality from looks to his di ck Yk. I think author just wanted to make his di ck big to convey that scene as to lift his confidence like that one of those sex talk in Smuts but it reached wrong audience but failed to do so & everyone interpreted that scene as some sort of forcing himself on her.

And another reason I've seen many ppl hate this series for is bcoz according to them ML always cries/being emotional, childish,acts immaturely & they probably don't like that, weird reason I would say, atleast 1st para reason has some basis to it while this is baseless.

It's pretty tame,one time read story with rating of 7/10.

& Just so you know he gets more hate than those cheater ml & fl. One recent example is "I'll give you the rotten one" literally everyone hypes her

[u/story645 → u/b2k_09]

The woman saying no/stop/etc is unfortunately a norm in Japanese and Korean smut aimed at women b/c "good girls" are supposed to be shy about sex and the no/stop is supposed to indicate embarrassment due to inexperience. Bodice rippers in the US were doing the same sorta things for the same reasons until norms in the US kinda changed.

[u/b2k_09 → u/story645]

Yeah that's what author was trying to convey I think(like why would any sane person would just put that dialogue), but audience took the wrong way.

[u/story645 → u/b2k_09]

Yeah like a giant "this manga was intended for an audience from country X and therefore follows the norms of X" banner on every manga would be silly but I think understanding those norms is important for understanding what's going on in a manga. Like folks can still dislike it b/c it's not to their taste, sure, but that's a different critique than "author is endorsing Y".

[u/EmotionalHouseCat]

The male lead is so childish and immature. He acts like a toddler.

[u/Professional-Coach18]

The webtoon version was a lot better than the non official translations. How inability to take no for an answer made me hate it

[u/noob_ars]

Because the story confuses being as cheeky and cute with being a whiny manchild that everyone has to follow his whims, specially the FL. Also thefact he abused his power as a boss just to overwork her just so she couldn't see other people, that comes of as petty and as in having no game.

That even indoors of their relationship seems to keep the same secretary boss hierarchy were she just has to go along with whatever he wants while her thoughts, wants are second thought or are played as "actually what Iseop wants is what Minyeong wants as well even though she doesn't say it" and that trope in itself is icky to me. Yes, you could like someone; that doesn't mean that person can do just whatever with you or that you have to go along with everything. Her no's and doubts are never treated seriously by him.

Also the way that when she was rejecting him or something he only thought about the lewd fantasies he had about her, not a single "i like you" "i love you" which to me is the bottom of romantic feelings ngl

[u/NoahDBest]

He was just too childish and pushy for me to enjoy.

[u/brimstone-red]

i feel like this might be a spoiler BUT, like i dont remember when but they sleep together he got turned on when she was literally crying and saying it hurts that gave me the ick plus many times i did kiss her when she was drunk

[u/sujimach → u/brimstone-red]

When I was reading it, it didn't say "it hurts," but everyone else is saying it. I think it's a translation mistake? And it's awful.

[u/Lunasims92 → u/sujimach]

From what I’ve seen, webtoons changed the translation. They put something like “why are you so big?” to make it less bad (imo it’s still pretty bad), when the real translation would be something like “I told you it hurts” which is fucking horrible.

[u/sujimach → u/Lunasims92]

This is genuinely disgusting. The translation I read said exactly this, and I was just cringing the entire time. I still don’t understand why they would write a sex scene like this in a romantic comedy webtoon. There’s nothing romantic, sweet, or appealing about it at all. And the constant emphasis on the ML’s size makes it even worse. It’s just awful.

[u/Lunasims92 → u/sujimach]

Yeah I felt horrible reading that :(
It was actually the chapter that I completely dropped the comic, before I was just hate reading in hopes that Iseop would change lol.

But yeah I also don’t understand why these things are portrayed in a romantic way when is straight up abuse. I’ve talked about this with some korean people and a lot of them told me that unfortunately that reflects a lot on the sexism in Korean society, a woman wanting to have sex is still frowned upon so they are always saying no or crying to show how “pure” they are, it’s disgusting but fortunately they are slowly changing this, hopefully in the future, things get better.

[u/sujimach → u/Lunasims92]

I can't say anything more, this is awful.

[u/Broken_life_7694 → u/Lunasims92]

Wait, women in real live do this? I thought it was jus on the webtoons, mangwhas and kdramas

[u/Lunasims92 → u/Broken_life_7694]

Fiction reflects a lot about a society, unfortunately Korea is still a incredibly misogynistic country, just look how female kpop idols are treated, a lot of them have to put up this submissive persona to make the fans( especially male fans) happy.

[u/Broken_life_7694 → u/Lunasims92]

I did knew about the misogyny, but the women in Korea literally have to act like that in real life is really disturbing and worrying.

[u/AbyssL00ksBack → u/Lunasims92]

I'm not sure why you don't get it when you have the answer right there. It's the same reason that you have a lot of fls being extremely shy/naive about sex (even ones that have regressed after being married).

It's not intended to appear abusive, and that's where you do get different views due to culture and kinks. It's highly similar to many reasons why dubcon/noncon is very popular globally among women--a big component is that society raises women so it's shameful if they openly want sex. (And while this is definitely bigger in the east, there's still a big degree of it in the west. Look at how Taylor Swift and other big name actresses/singers are treated for dating around vs men doing so. The whore/madonna complex etc etc).

These tropes let you have your cake and eat it too--fl (or you inserting yourself as the fl) is still not openly showing that desire while also getting the fun. The 'no' to the audience is basically the same as the lyrics to 'baby it's cold out there'--perfunctory. An act is being performed. "Oh no, I wouldn't want this at all, wink wink. I tried my best to reject it. But what I can do? It happened anyways.".

[u/Lady_Eruvande]

I think the problem is that this webtoon is WAY BETTER than many other office romances. There is real quality in the art, not just because the images are pretty, but also because of how the story is told. The webtoon has a real personality, so it doesn't feel like a generic office romance. In fact, you can tell that the author of the webtoon (who is adapting the novel) loves her work.

And the problem with works that are clearly better than average is that they attract an audience that is naturally more demanding. I mean, when I read a generic webtoon that I know will be bad, I don't expect anything. But if I read something that starts to show some quality, my expectations grow. And the higher you go, the harder you fall. Season 1 was pretty cute in my opinion, but season 2 was... Hum... gross. I found it quite ridiculous and awkward, like some kind of Fifty Shades of Grey. I was really disappointed. And I guess that's the reason people started to hate the comic: because of the disappointment.

[u/Sweet_Joy29]

That fake ahh what's wrong with Secretary Kim arc where his jealousy makes him over work her. I was expecting her to have a backbone but that a fever dream. I've hated fun and the story ever since lol.

[u/andeeno]

Idk i just got bored of it

[u/Yuna_Hudson]

Never read that one, but seeing the comments make me interested. I like realistic people portrayals, no cardboard OP unrealistic characters.

[u/Makimamoochie → u/Yuna_Hudson]

He is more dynamic as a character than a lot of MLs out there, but the comments are correct that there is a very glorified dubious consent scene so be warned if that is something you do not want to see.

[u/Yuna_Hudson → u/Makimamoochie]

Nah I have read worse. After passing the 1,000 stories nothing surprises me, but two or three were kinda traumatic and I never will read them again.

[u/UsamiTsan]

I like the story and Iseop himself, but I don't like this style of art. FL's face looks like a plastic, especially at the beginning at the story. Later she's more expressive, but still not my taste. Ngl, at first I thought that artist might use ai.

[u/Sweet-Awk-7861]

I read ten chapters and got the vibe that it's garbage heavily carried by the art.

[u/Upbeat-Okra-6026]

Because he is trash 🙂

[u/noob_ars]

do with this as you will... for me is icky idk about y'all

[u/Background_Gene_4328]

Never read that because i don't want to watch ads to unlock chapters 😭😭.

https://giphy.com/gifs/VJqiFbOR5xwB8kf7HV

[u/BubblyCommon2762]

Idk 😅

[u/Popular-Chance-747]

istg this is my guilty pleasure. Does he piss me off sometimes?YES Are the proportions sometimes odd?yes Do i still think he's fine in some angles? yes. Does he annoy me so bad ? yes . Am i gonna carry on reading this? yes

[u/Ok-Day3334]

the ML pretty much rapes her which would have been not as bad as a thing if they didn't romanticise it like that. There was no mention of it at all

[u/Makimamoochie]

He hits a niche type of bad boy that is too bad girls not into red/black flag guys and not generically hot/tough enough for the women who like red/black flag men. He has too many character flaws that are not his sexual deviousness, so women who do not mind a 'pushy' man, find him annoying for his personality. And obviously, Women who don't like 'pushy' men, hate him. I think he is a fine character character. He is more interesting and much less violent than I find Jae Jaekyoung from Jinx, which is probably not the best comparison, but an example of a massive black flag that plenty of women stanned even during his worst moments because he was hot enough to them

[u/Superb-Grab-2902]

There are simp impurities, and the story keeps dragging