r/whichbike Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

409 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike 1h ago

Giant TCR with Dura Ace, asking price €250. Worth it?

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Upvotes

Hi I’m considering buying this for a bit of commute around town and exercise. I live in a relatively flat and mildly rainy city. For €250 is this a fair deal?
I’m also not familiar with this seat post style. What modifications would I need to make for it to be suitable around town?
Apologies the photos are a screenshot from the ad so might be a little grainy.

It is an ALUXX 6000 frame apparently. Pasting the description for more context. Thanks in advance!

Description
For sale is a customized, high-performance Giant TCR road bike, tailored for serious endurance events. If you are looking for an extremely light machine that is built for Ironman triathlons, this is it.

Key Features:

- Super-Light Frame: Optimized Giant TCR geometry with a specialized, polished silver-titanium frame and Ritchey Carbon Fork (pristine condition).

- Specialized Ironman Cockpit: Integrated aero-bars with clean pads, red tape, and an included frame-mounted 'IRONMAN FRANCE-NICE TCR' gear and nutrition bag for race-day efficiency.

- Premium Drivetrain: A full Shimano Dura-Ace component group (as pictured), gleaming after a detailed service and polish. Shifts are crisp and precise.

- Performance Wheels: High-quality wheels with clean red-sidewall performance tires.

Condition: Serviced, optimized, and visually perfected. Every surface has been cleaned and polished to a brilliant finish, ready to dominate your next race.

This is a professional setup, ready for training or racing right out of the box. Please inspect all photos for the immaculate condition of the components.


r/whichbike 4h ago

Maybe we really don’t need a second car

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6 Upvotes

Most of our daily trips are under 5 miles. I’m not trying to go completely car-free, but keeping a second car for that is starting to feel wasteful. A friend sent me a video of this ebike and now I’m wondering what family trip is actually the hardest to replace with a cargo e-bike.


r/whichbike 4h ago

Beginner looking for a road bike

2 Upvotes

Hello! New to the bike world. I’m looking for a solid budget friendly beginner bike to see if I actually enjoy the sport. I’ve been on marketplace hunting and my budget is around $800-$900 CAD. Any help or advice is helpful.


r/whichbike 1h ago

whats the diffrence between those 2 stumpys

Upvotes

What would feel diffrent while riding those bikes?


r/whichbike 6h ago

Restomod?

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2 Upvotes

r/whichbike 3h ago

Road Bike at around 2000€

1 Upvotes

Hi, i want to get into cycling, as i already run and i am leaning into it, and wanted something good for around 2000€. The X-LAB RS7 would be the bike but i am in Europe, is there anything close to it - Carbon, power meter, good groupset, etc. I know cube makes some great affordable options, maybe get one and slap a power meter on it? Thanks!


r/whichbike 4h ago

Which bike should I choose? £4000 budget

1 Upvotes

Hi all,

Sorry in advance for my lack of knowledge!

I want to buy a bike (my first) and I have a £4,000 budget for it. I have found a couple of bikes on Balfe’s Bikes i like the look of (mainly the Trek Madone, I love the design!).

I have a bike fit scheduled which i hope will narrow it down fit wise, but I was wondering about the bike’s specs. Here are my bike selections:

- Trek Madone SL 6 Gen 8 Di2 Road Bike 2025

- Trek Madone SL 6 Gen 8 Di2 Road Bike 2026

- Trek Madone SL 6 Gen 8 Di2 Road Bike 2027

- Giant DefyAdvanced Ultegra Ui2 Road Bike 2026

You’ll notice I have different year models, as i noticed slight changes in spec, wondering if it’s worth getting a older version if these don’t actually change much.

I’m looking to buy a bike that is fast, light and works well on climbs as well as longer rides.

Please let me know! I look forward to your help!! Thanks.


r/whichbike 22h ago

Ok, is this worth 2k? I can't figure it out but want to buy it!

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31 Upvotes

Here's the description:

Frame carbon fiber road fully hidden line.
Handlebar carbon 420×80.
Bottom bracket T47(86 mm).
Cassette Sunshine 11-34 T HG 11s.
Groupset GS Shimano 105 R7020+R7070.
Crank 50-34 T,170 mm aluminum alloy.
Hydraulic disc brakes 140-R 160-F.
Saddle 3D carbon.
Rims 50 mm tubeless 700c carbon disc brake,tires GoodYear Eagle F1 700×32c tubeless.
Hub 24 H,straightpull,disc brake 6-bolts,Thru Axle,F-100×12 mm.,R-142×12 mm freehub body HG 11s.
This is not a branded bike, it was assembled by me myself.Everything is reliable and high quality, I give a guarantee for everything.

I mean, what? Please help!


r/whichbike 4h ago

New To Commute Biking, Looking For Advice

1 Upvotes

I don’t drive and recently moved to an area that doesn’t have public transit. The walkability is also low due to sidewalks suddenly stopping next to busy-ish roads.

So, I’m looking into starting biking to get around but I have no idea what to look for in a bike and was hoping to get some advice.

I won’t be biking off-trail or anything like that. This bike will simply be a method of transportation. I’m 5’5” and 200+ lbs. The area has the occasional steep hill and some gravel paths. My budget is also basically nonexistent at the moment so I’ve been looking at secondhand bikes to get me started until I can get something better.

I’ve found a Schwinn Perla and Fairhaven secondhand in my budget but I’ve seen some mixed reviews about them.

So things to look for or brands or bikes to keep an eye out for would be greatly appreciated.


r/whichbike 4h ago

Buying Advice? Stigmata, Aspero, etc for PNW gravel, road and beyond

1 Upvotes

As the title states I am looking to get myself a new bike. A little about myself, I used to crit race and cyclocross up until my early thirties, now 37. When I stopped racing I fell in love with mountain biking and did that for quite a few years but have recently stopped. I currently own a 2020 Kona Libre that I have had since it was released and it has done well for me as a generalist bike. Riding gravel, commuting, bikepacking (once or twice a year and fairly mellow routes). I am getting the itch to upgrade to a newer bike and the Santa Cruz Stigmata is really catching my eye, along with the Cervelo Aspero (I crit raced on an R5 and have always loved Cervelo). The goal for the bike is to have something I can enjoy at higher efforts where I really want to put the power down (which the Libre does not do well), and still be able to bomb down singletrack and do longer gravel fondo's and even multi day events like the Buckshot here in BC.

I know there is always a little give and take with every bike. But my hope is to have something that I can enjoy on gravel, and a bit of singletrack. Then be able to take it for some decent road efforts for cross training (with more road oriented tires). What would you choose for this? Open to other suggestions too.


r/whichbike 18h ago

Just rescued this Kona tonk from the pawn shop, Kinda tool a double take when I saw the Reynolds Sticker.

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10 Upvotes

Its gonna need a lot of the work but its gonna be a fun journey. The frame is shockingly nice, the paint is still good with only normal wear marks. The down tube is almost pristine. On a side note how do people ride with bars turned up like this?


r/whichbike 8h ago

Trek Checkpoint ALR 4 vs Cannondale Topstone 1 Alloy

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1 Upvotes

Ive been looking at bikes for a well over a month now (22 y/o from Belgium and havent since high school but want to go explore my area again and take longer trips in the future) and have been stuck between going with the "easy" option, the Trek for €1499, because I have a Trek dealership/Shimano Service Center down the road from my place and a bike that's got some better specs but from a different brand.

I found a Cannondale Topstone 1 Alloy for €1599 instead of €2399 on sale being sold out of Bavaria (so €99 shipping) that has a Shimano GRX 820/600 2x12, which i think might be more versatile and long-term oriented than the Trek with its Shimano CUES U8000 1x11.

Obviously the Trek is the easier option given the proximity but the store can service just as well given their Shimano Service Center status.

I've been having some analysis paralysis and can't even really decide between a 1x and 2x, let alone a bike in general, which is why im posting here.

Let me know what you think!

(FYI I have basically 0 experience maintaining bikes but do want to learn since im planning on doing some bike packing next spring/summer, however most riding will likely be on paved/gravel roads around my area and Belgium in general


r/whichbike 8h ago

Update: American roadie in Spain, looking for a gravel rig

0 Upvotes

Hola amigos!

A couple months ago, I posted the following:

****

Hello all. I am potentially moving to Europe late this summer and thinking about my cycling options. I have historically done most of my riding on the road but am thinking, if I do get a new bike while in Europe, then why not get a dedicated gravel bike to add to the quiver? So, please throw some ideas out for me to consider according to the following parameters:

- late 40s male

- my current bike: Canyon Aeroad

- my current gravel option: Trek Domane (w/ gravel tires)

- i'd like to purchase a bike that is unavailable, or at least very difficult to find, in the US

- though "coolness" is not the most important factor, bonus points for cool/trendy brands

- budget: likely 2-4k €

****

Well, I have landed in Spain and I’d like to update the post with a few more thoughts.

- thank you for all the initial suggestions. A lot of really cool brands that I’ve never heard of.

- all the above the above still applies but I’ve decided that I would like to get a Spanish brand. Also, want to focus more on a performance-oriented setup.

- I love the look of the Guava but it seems a bit out of reach price-wise at the moment

- locally, I’ve found Berria (All Road, NAII) and Megamo (West). Please give me your thoughts. Do not hold back, you cannot hurt my feelings.

- any other suggestions?

Thank you all!


r/whichbike 9h ago

Trek Madone 6.2 - $700

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1 Upvotes

I’m looking to get my first road bike and struggling to find anything in good shape in my area. Found this 2011 Trek Madone 6.2 for $700 (plus a pair of Shimano RC3 shoes in my size). Is this worth it? any insight is greatly appreciated! Here is the seller description:

“Carbon fiber Trek Madone road bike has a black and yellow OCLV carbon frame. It is equipped with a Shimano Ultegra groupset and Bontrager Race Lite wheels. The bike includes power meter pedals, two white bottle cages and a white saddle.“


r/whichbike 9h ago

First bike Supersix Evo or Focus Izalco?

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1 Upvotes

Looking for a first road bike mostly for laps in the city.
Debating between used:
Focus Izalco Max 8.7 2K
Cannondale Supersix Evo 2020 1.6K
What do you all think?


r/whichbike 19h ago

Is it worth it?

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5 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I’m interested in getting into the world of bikes, and to be honest, I’ve only ever had one besides my childhood bike.

I’m looking for a bike that I can use on both paved roads and a daily basis. When I asked chat gpt, it suggested that I might be looking for a “gravel bike,” which is a bike designed for both on-road and off-road use according to chat gpt and that has gears.

I checked out facebook marketplace and found this gravel bike for $500. Is it a good deal? Does anyone have any experience with this bike?


r/whichbike 10h ago

Looking for bike type advice

1 Upvotes

Hi,

my partner and I are looking to buy bikes to ride the trails/forests here in our free time for some training. We live in Germany. We are both into trail running and use a zwift bike for some crosstraining. We also have e-bikes for commuting/errands.

Now we want to get a pair of bikes to take on the trails and forests (and the way to them and back).
We never owned bikes "for sport", not counting the zwift bike, and are unsure which type of bike would be a good fit. Somewhere in the gravel and/or mountainbike category, but even the mountainbike category has like at least 10 different subcategories (or at least different terms used for the same thing, not sure).

We are not looking to do any actual mountain bike trails with berms/jumps/rockgardens/technical singletracks. 90% of the trails we are looking at look like this, with sections of either loose rocks/gravel or compacted. On the other and its dirt that can get rather muddy in the rain, especially when heavy lumbering vehicles used the trails. It can get steep, so we rather have more gears on the lower end.

First priority is being comfortable on this terrain, no need for anything made with super high end racing in mind in which any aerodynamic gain is important.
We know basic bike maintenance, but suspensions stuff would be new to us.

Are gravel bikes (with wide tires) still a good choice here? Or should we rather look for mountainbikes? If yes which kind?


r/whichbike 17h ago

Cannondale R1000 Si for $200?

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3 Upvotes

Thinking of picking up this (2001?) Cannondale r1000 si for $200.

“Bike has Shimano Ultegra components. It has Ritchey Aero OCR wheels. It has two water bottle cages and Shimano pedals.”

I don’t want anything super fancy, I’ve been doing 25+ mile rides on my $100 fixie so anything is an upgrade at this point (though I love the fixie). Probably gonna move next year, so I don’t wanna buy a $1,000 bike and then have to sell it.

Is $200 a good price?
Thanks!


r/whichbike 13h ago

Looking for used bike shopping advice in NZ.

1 Upvotes

Normally, Facebook Marketplace in the USA isn’t a bad spot. But I see folks selling used bikes for 10-15% off current retail for new—which is mind blowing for someone used to 50%.


r/whichbike 1d ago

De rosa giro d'Italia for $500? Good deal?

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13 Upvotes

Looking at potentially picking this up. Listed locally for $500. Curious if it's worth getting?


r/whichbike 1d ago

I’m new to this - Is this bike worth it?

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4 Upvotes

Hello, I’ve always rode bikes but never really invested in a nice bike. Is this worth it for $250? I see a lot of this same frame for sale on eBay for a huge range of prices. Any help would be appreciated.


r/whichbike 20h ago

Is this bike worth it?

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1 Upvotes

Description
S-Works Venge 54 carbon road bike with Zipp wheel 454. Sram Red crankset (cable) Garmin Edge 840 and Garmin Varia radar included

Just wondering what this subreddit's thoughts are.

Seller says bike is in good condition and has no cracks.


r/whichbike 20h ago

Is this one worth it

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1 Upvotes

S-Works Venge 54 carbon road bike with Zipp wheel 454. Sram Red crankset (cable) Garmin Edge 840 and Garmin Varia radar included

Been looking at this bike for a bit. Just wondering what this subreddit's thoughts are


r/whichbike 1d ago

Beginner searching for advice on purchasing a simple commuter bike

2 Upvotes

I'm planning on purchasing a commuter bike for riding back and forth to University 5 days a week, once or twice each day. The ride is about 1-1.5 miles depending on the part of campus, and walking has been rough because I live in a hot climate. My city has good bike lanes for the majority of the commute. My complex has a bike room and the only other place I would park my bike regularly would be at the University, so theft isn't a high concern. What type of bike am I looking for here? Is a $200 Walmart bike enough to do the trick? Should I be looking for entry level BMX, city bike, etc.? I don't have an $8000 budget for a high-end bike... I just need something beginner-friendly that does the job with consistency. I don't really know anything about bikes, but I really believe it's the right choice for commuting for me, so I'd appreciate any advice I can get. Thanks!