r/whoathatsinteresting • u/MelanieWalmartinez • 4h ago

Students get smudged by indigenous elders for peace and blessings throughout the year

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101

u/unconvincedhuman 4h ago

This is 100% harmless yet people here will have a problem with it.

50

u/Randomizedname1234 4h ago

Idc what your religion is, if you’re sending good vibes and a blessings I’ll take it!

Like who would be mad at that?!

10

u/Any-Mobile-2473 4h ago

Exactly. My own people do the same but with Syrian rue ("espand" as we call it). Nothing really radical or deeply religious expected here, just a nice gesture to bless someone/some place and keep away negativity. Also makes for a better smelling home, if you've ever smelled sage (or whatever the elder above used ) or Syrian rue. Just saying

8

u/emotumbleweed 3h ago

Even the most anti-spiritual, science minded person should be able to understand that good smells can be a calming presence that “blesses” a space, aromatherapy is a thing. It makes sense that cultures will attribute significance to them.

As long as it’s not hurting anyone, some adults in this thread are being way more pissy than the kids actually involved here.

2

u/One_Recognition385 3h ago

christians do the same exact thing is the thing, they go up and down the aisle with little metal boxes on chains and blow smoke and incense on people.

1

u/Pijany_Matematyk767 2m ago

>little metal boxes on chains

They're called censers or thuribles

14

u/bwoah07_gp2 4h ago

What if people don't want any participation in any other religions ritual whatsoever? Then what?

15

u/sparkster185 4h ago

"no thank you" is just basic common courtesy.

3

u/SyrianArmpit 3h ago

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a reason this is bad, looks like it takes a few seconds of standing there for it to be over. At the end of the day you’re building community and spreading good vibes.

3

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

We just leave them alone to be miserable like you.

3

u/namereset4badmouth 3h ago

They politely decline

15

u/Randomizedname1234 4h ago

Then keep walking and smile lol

-3

u/Warm-Delivery1418 3h ago

Doesn’t really work that way with adults and children.

0

u/MrOcean8 3h ago

True. Especially adults that like to push things like this

1

u/Legitimate_Command82 2h ago

Then if that happens you can clutch your pearls

7

u/Floorgis 4h ago

Pretty sure they can keep walking or say no but I do agree that this has no place in schools like any religion.

9

u/SpaceSlothLaurence 3h ago

Consider that this is most likely coming from a school on a reservation, aka where the native tribe that was forcefully displaced from their homelands in an act of genocide, is finally able to govern themselves again due to the grace of the white man....

Now take your comment and add a little nuance to it?

1

u/One_Recognition385 3h ago

"FORCING KIDS TO GIVE THEIR BLESSINGS AND THANKS TO GOD IN THE CLASSROOM IS ONE THING, THESE WOMEN BLESSING KIDS IS ANOTHER THING."

Forget that blessing people with smoke and incense is also a christian thing. these people ain't the smartest.

0

u/Floorgis 3h ago

I really dont care dude, the nuance was already there you just dont like it

1

u/AndyJack86 2h ago

Doesn't care about genocide. Got it.

1

u/SpaceSlothLaurence 3h ago

There's an extreme lack of nuance in not understanding why a native religion that was attempted to be genocided trying to deeply instill their cultural values in children.

It's not dissimilar to Armenian schools in different parts of the world, which teach Armenian children about their culture and their religion to help preserve a culture that was subjected to a cultural cleansing.

1

u/Floorgis 3h ago

The nuance wasnt lacking, again, you just dont like it.

-1

u/double_think95 3h ago

This is obviously a school on a reserve, dumbass. This is what little culture we have left

1

u/Floorgis 3h ago

Womp womp

4

u/BobbbyR6 4h ago

Then keep walking. What an insufferable mindset.

Somebody is wishing you good health or luck or otherwise being friendly and you take offense.

1

u/Alternative_Hotel649 3h ago

I don't mind someone wishing me good health.

I do mind, very much, a government institution like a public school giving an endorsement to any sort of religious practice, even religious practices I approve of.

It's not clear to me where this happened. If it was a private school, then I don't care. If it was a public school, then this is very much not an okay thing to do, no matter how well intentioned it was.

-4

u/bwoah07_gp2 3h ago

Wish me good luck or health or whatever, fine. Keep the spiritual ritual out of it.

4

u/Charon_the_Reflector 3h ago

Keep walking dork

2

u/Natural_Chain3190 3h ago

About the same as receiving Merry Christmas when you aint Christian.

Enjoy the vibes and literal well wishes bro

-2

u/ModOfficial1988 3h ago

Not the same. They do this all the time in Canada and it’s really annoying and they get offended if you don’t want smoke blown in your face. Someone saying Merry Christmas or happy Diwali isn’t forcing you to take part in their religion.

1

u/Educational_Tune9509 3h ago

What if that religion is being systematically annihilated, all its practitioners genocide. You don't think that makes it a lil different than, say, Mormons? 

1

u/M0ebius_1 3h ago

Don't inhale.

1

u/Danica_Rose 4h ago

Stfu we’re on their stolen land. We can at least participate in their culture.

1

u/SupaSmol 3h ago

Then they don't have to.

Christianity pops up everywhere. Many Christians are still complaining about "haply holidays". Thise who do don't seem to mind pushing their religious message onto others. So maybe focus on being one of the good ones, rather than being frustrated by the assumption someone else wouldn't take no for an answer.

4

u/Tall-Needleworker422 3h ago

The concern isn't the positive intent, but the precedent. If a *public* school sponsored entryway blessings from a priest or imam, many parents would understandably object. So, opposing this isn't about being angry; it's about protecting the principle of the division of church and state.

1

u/baconator_out 2h ago

On the flip side, the action may be doing that. If Christian influence is already sponsored by the school, then obtaining equal access for other religions may be the best roundabout route to protecting the separation. If a mandatory prayer by a pastor to start the day means a prophet of baal gets to smear goat's blood over the doorway (or what have you), Christians might care much more about maintaining the separate existences.

1

u/Jujubi836 1h ago

But there is no division. Not really.

1

u/Tall-Needleworker422 51m ago

I don't know what your public-school experience was like, but I certainly never experienced prayers or blessings or religious ceremonies on school grounds. Private schools are permitted vastly more leeway in that regard.

1

u/NeedsomeCompany33 2h ago

Not everyone wants a bunch of smoke blown in their face.

While I wouldn’t be mad, you have no right to put anything from your religion on me. People always complain about others pushing religion on them, especially on this platform; yet this gets a pass for what reason again?

That’s hypocrisy at its finest..

1

u/mallcopsarebastards 3h ago

beacuse not everyone agrees on what good vibes are. You can't fairly allow this without also allowing bible recitation to your kids, but there are a lot of people who think the bible is "good vibes" and lots of people who don't.

1

u/Bootmacher 3h ago

I missed the part where the kids were required to participate.

0

u/mallcopsarebastards 3h ago

would you be okay if your kids public school stood up a totally optional scientology room for kids to take their weekly dianetics tests or pray to lord xenu ?

2

u/Bootmacher 3h ago

That also didn't happen. School resources aren't being used to offer this. Scientology also has no ties to the community.

1

u/mallcopsarebastards 3h ago

scientology has ties to many if not most communities in the US and canada. And okay, but would you be okay if a scientologist was standing outside your kids public school offering them a quick dianetics test on their way in?

1

u/Bootmacher 3h ago

No they don't. Having a physical presence in the community does not mean they're part of the culture. Not being part of the surrounding culture and being solely for proselytizing would be grounds to deny access.

These kids aren't being engaged with at an intellectual level, so I still don't think it's a fitting comparison. If it were middle or high school, I'd encourage it so my kids could troll them.

1

u/Alternative_Hotel649 3h ago

People who don't like religious indoctrination in schools?

1

u/Consistent-Help-3785 2h ago

if it was any other religion, this is not the reaction you would have, be honest, and don't lie... ur fellow leftists would burn you at the stake if you are cool with Christians doing this.

1

u/Randomizedname1234 1h ago

I am. I go to my MIL Catholic mass sometimes and get the blessing at the end. Ofc I can’t do communion but hey they’re giving out good vibes I’ll take it.

My fellow radical leftists who think that’s stupid are also dumb. You don’t have to agree to accept someone’s good wishes is my point

0

u/GSilky 4h ago

Anyone with an overdeveloped sense of the Bill of Rights.

0

u/Global_Childhood_602 4h ago

I mean all that nonsense makes people believe in bullshit fake things which has a ripple effect.

4

u/Bright-Ad4601 3h ago

My only problem would be if it's mandatory, if you can opt out I don't see the harm

13

u/Substantial_Meal_530 4h ago

If this is a public school in the US separation and church and state? I don't want the ten commandments in schools and I also don't want this.

10

u/Unlucky-Cook2578 4h ago

it is not

4

u/SignificantInside877 4h ago

That’s not what separation of church and state means at all.

5

u/JustHere_4TheMemes 3h ago

It pretty much is. Its not a strong example of it, but still an example. Separation of church and state means that the apparatus and power/influence of state (i.e. government) should not be seen to endorse or promote one specific national faith. SO, no, its not like the school is teaching the doctrines of one faith and claiming them to be true. Nor is the 'state' is openly declaring the nation is officially X faith. But unless there is a conscious effort to make something like this a multi-faith learning opportunity, a public school should not be in the habit of front-lining any one faith.

6

u/adinmem 3h ago

It is exactly what it means if that’s a public school and the other religions aren’t invited to all be there at the same time.

1

u/BantedHam 2h ago

The exception I can see is if it isn't just her and they constantly invite a multi-culteral and ethnically diverse range of religions to all be presented, then that's pretty cool. I went to an 'alternative education' high school, and the world religions class was badass. We went to to local Hari Krishna temple, the local Hindu temple, two different monasterys, an old Catholic church, an Eastern Orthodox church, a mosque, and a few other over the course of a year.

The problem is when the presentation of one religion or the other is biased or not presented at all. Either gove the kids all the material or keep it out of your scholastics entirely.

5

u/Justinaug29 3h ago

Just don’t get offended when I ignore it and just walk in

5

u/grumpy_herbivore 3h ago

They won't.

-3

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

Nobody is offended. I’m sure everyone can tell you’re miserable and leave you go on your way. 👍

5

u/Uncle_Seamont 3h ago

Yep, the person with a different opinion must be a miserable, shitty person. Reddit logic checks out again

2

u/whatup-markassbuster 3h ago

Imagine if it was a Christian priest blessing these children with Holy water. People would be shitting their pants.

1

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

Probably. America is filled with tons of miserable people. Ya just gotta smile and tell people to have a nice day.

9

u/GSilky 4h ago

What if it were Catholic nuns handing out rosaries to kids entering a public school? Assuming this is a public school, of course.

6

u/oceanhymn 3h ago

I also wouldn't care. What matters here is the option to decline.

What people get caught up on with the distinctions between cultural appropriation, appreciation, and assimilation is two pronged. A) Whether or not the culture is being shared by someone within it and B) whether or not the recipient is given the opportunity to decline.

So long as the child or their family are given the agency to choose whether or not their child participates and it's being presented honorably by a member of the community who is enthusiastic to share their culture, I'm not sure why there would be anything wrong with it.

I feel like the majority of negative comments here are just showing a very rudimentary understanding of the conversation and are hoping to find the perfect gotcha to validate their misery.

3

u/mallcopsarebastards 3h ago

> I'm not sure why there would be anything wrong with it.

Well, there's at least a dozen libraries worth of hard won knowledge around the value of separating church and state in public schools, and specifically around the idea that it must be institutional, enforced neutrality rather than optional access / broad accommodation.

In constitutional law it's referred to as non-establishment, meaning that a public facility cannot endorse any religion at any level. This isn't something that came about lightly, there's definitely a reason for it, and it's one that's been tested millions of times.

1

u/oceanhymn 2h ago

I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong but coming on to a post enforcing your own stance by saying it's backed by "at least a dozen libraries worth of hard won knowledge" and has "been tested millions of times" without a single link to any source is pretty much impossible to engage with.

If you want to point to how the specific examples here of the smudging and the rosary are equally comparable in their endorsement of specific religions and meet the criteria of failed enforced neutrality backed by historical studies and tests, then sure, let's have that conversation and cite the studies. But, in a conversation on reddit that's being conducted solely on the basis of gotcha's and logical reasonings, the vague reference to possible knowledge that may prove you correct if you're accurate in your citations does nothing.

If you want to share the logical conclusions of how these studies proved your point instead of citing them, that may be a better use of this conversation, but as it stands you're kind of just saying "You're wrong because some book you haven't read told me so. I'm not going to tell you what book, but I promise it proves me right."

4

u/bwoah07_gp2 4h ago

I'd hand it right back to them. I don't want it. 🚫

5

u/ShredGuru 4h ago

Christians definitely forced those Chick Tracts on us and little shitty bibles too. We used em to roll joints..

Why do "what ifs" about shit that actually happens every fuckin day?

Seems like a Christian looking to project persecution while doing the exact same type of behavior to me.

3

u/GSilky 4h ago

How about the idea that all spiritual and religious practices are nothing necessary for school, unless it's an expressly religious school? Supporting one without supporting the other is pure hypocrisy. Fwiw, I don't care either way, but I get tired of the one way criticism that is easily picked apart being presented as rational thought on a topic.

1

u/drgs100 3h ago

Like a poster said earlier, it on a reservation so it folks just carrying out their own traditions in their own schools.

0

u/GSilky 3h ago

So someone says is now evidence of anything?

1

u/JustHere_4TheMemes 3h ago

You rolled joints with bible pages! O,O wow, you are so edgy! Like the edgiest edge lord ever! So much edge.

1

u/DeneralVisease 2h ago

No religion should be in school, hope this helps.

2

u/Elismom1313 3h ago

I mean that happened to me as a kid, I said no thank you and kept walking. Not a big deal

5

u/unconvincedhuman 4h ago

It’s not.

7

u/Lifteveryone 4h ago

How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?

5

u/Unlucky-Cook2578 4h ago

Cute, but that isnt how this works. Catholic schools exist. You can play the what if game all you want, but that may as well be 'what if they stood there and shot each kid?'

The relevance of the question is about hypocrisy, which isnt the case here.

0

u/Lifteveryone 3h ago

"What if I didn't eat breakfast? Breakfast exists. May as well ask what if I shot myself!"

See how silly that sounds?

2

u/Unlucky-Cook2578 3h ago

I know the reference, and pointed out that you are using it wrong.

0

u/Lifteveryone 2h ago

Responding to a hypothetical with "its not" is the exact meme.

"But I did eat breakfast today!"

1

u/Unlucky-Cook2578 1h ago

Yes but the hypothetical is wrong. It is trying to create a hypothetical to point out hypocrisy, but since this isn't a public school, the hypothetical for hypocrisy doesn't work.

It isnt that we cant imagine the hypothetical, it is that it isn't relevant to the scenerio. Even the poster recognized that by caveating it as 'assuming this is a public school', because if it turns out it isnt a public shool. The question becomes irrelevant. Now you are just asking 'Imagine catholics are catholic and prostants are prostants?'.

-2

u/GSilky 4h ago

How do you know this is a Catholic school? That dude is wearing a fleece that isn't zipped all the way, not a cassock and collar.

2

u/Unlucky-Cook2578 4h ago

It isnt it is a private indigenous school. The point is there is no issue of hypocrisy here. These are private schools that can operate as they choose, and no one is forced to attend them

2

u/GSilky 4h ago

How do we know this? Genuinely asking. I don't see any context.

3

u/ShredGuru 4h ago

Color me an "unconvinced human". Christians are so horny for indoctrination in schools it's wild. As an atheist kid in public school it was obnoxious and unavoidable and way more aggressive than any kind of native awareness they presented us.

2

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

You sound sad and miserable. Hope you have a nice day.

1

u/Training_Wind_4997 2h ago

Probably less miserable since they are outside of indoctrination age

0

u/Danica_Rose 3h ago

If the stolen land we’re living on was natively inhabited by catholic nuns then sure yeah I’d at least participate in taking a rosary even though I don’t personally practice the tradition.

3

u/EveryAccount7729 3h ago

breathing in smoke is never 100% harmless.

1

u/audioscape 2h ago

Lmao so you’d make this comment if you saw a video of kids sitting around a campfire too?

0

u/EveryAccount7729 2h ago

no, when sitting around a campfire I always learn to avoid the smoke actively.

do you not explain to kids to avoid the smoke when you teach them about camp fires?

because this is the opposite of that. If you would tell a child to avoid the smoke of a camp fire then you should also be against this.

1

u/audioscape 2h ago

What? Yea you can definitely teach kids to avoid breathing in the smoke but it’s not something so severe that everytime kids learn about outdoor fires they learn about smoke avoidance? Also it’s not even a good comparison on my part because this is like 1/20th the smoke from a campfire and it’s usually sage which is a very light herbal smoke.

0

u/EveryAccount7729 2h ago

is breathing it in to your lungs bad for you?

yes.

so then, you should avoid breathing it in.

1

u/audioscape 2h ago

Alright, next time I’m at a campground or anywhere with wood heat or next to a diesel truck I’ll hope to see you protesting.

1

u/EveryAccount7729 2h ago

did you just forget the conversation like 2-3 comments ago?

"when sitting around a campfire I always learn to avoid the smoke actively.

do you not explain to kids to avoid the smoke when you teach them about camp fires?"

???

Liberals are literally telling people to replace their gas stoves in their homes and getting shit for it. are you aware of this current event? I'm with them.

1

u/audioscape 2h ago

And I am saying that the fumes from diesel school bus that these kids rode to school on is a million times worse than the tiny bit of sage smoke. Choose your battles. Gas stoves fucking blow up apartment buildings.

0

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

Thanks for your service, doctor 👍

1

u/EveryAccount7729 2h ago

i see these youtubes where they burn sage and then tell the person to take a deep breath inhale of it. . .

it's disturbing.

1

u/Happy_Goose3833 4h ago

I don't have a problem with it but I certainly was gunna raise a question 😅 can you not be allergic to this possibly?

3

u/ObliqueTortoise 3h ago

Valid question, name anything and it's almost a guarantee the someone somewhere will be allergic to it whether they are aware of it or not. There are immunocompromised people who are allergic to even plastic, which is usually hypoallergenic by its chemistry alone. Society can make adjustments for common allergies but accounting for every possible allergy would put a pause on the entire world just because there is a 1% chance someone might walk through the area and have an allergic reaction to the smoke blowing past. It being a centuries old ritual doesn't automatically make it safe but breathing in a little bit of smoke is almost certainly about as dangerous as accidentally walking being someone with a lit cigarette.

1

u/ochocinco_tacos 3h ago

It’s very likely some of the kids in that school have asthma, though. So, similar to smokers, she should take it far away from the front door of a school.

1

u/ObliqueTortoise 3h ago

While it's true a lot of kids have asthma, I don't think a little smoke will trigger a full on asthma attack. If they are that sensitive and have severe asthma attacks it should be the parents' responsibility to teach them to stay far away from any possible triggers and to be prepared if something triggers it because it would be a case of when not if. The lady is just giving them a good luck charm and not even forcing it everyone, she shouldn't need to be relegated to a corner of the school yard on a 1 in a million chance the world's most severe case of asthma might walk through. While it sucks to have to live with asthma, especially in severe cases, you'll have to take measures to keep yourself safe rather than expecting everyone else to know and do it for you.

1

u/ochocinco_tacos 3h ago

How do parents keep them away from triggers when a teacher is blowing smoke in their face at the front door of their school? Who cares if all she is doing is wishing luck? Move it away from the doors. She doesn’t need to be sent to a corner of the school. Maybe just 30-50 feet away. A safe distance so people don’t need to walk through the smoke to get to class.

1

u/ObliqueTortoise 3h ago

If you are asthmatic there is the simple option of refusing the smudge when she asks, inform her you have asthma in which case I'm sure she'd just move of the way for you and then walk past her upwind of the smoke so you don't inhale any of it. She's stood 10 feet from the door not cerberus guarding the gates of hell and the camerawoman is stood a good 20 feet from her at least, plenty of time to see the smoke and find a way around if need be. She's simply wafting a bit of smoke your way, you can choose not to bathe yourself in the smoke plume like the kids in the video and you're acting like she's wearing a bomb vest about to splatter some kids any minute.

1

u/ochocinco_tacos 2h ago

I’m not acting like that at all. I’m saying it’s rude to stand in front of doors while you are blowing smoke at people. She could easily move off to the side so she isn’t in front and the doors aren’t down wind of the smoke. It doesn’t offend me that she is doing it. It’s just her location that bothers me. I also don’t think people should stand in front of doors smoking cigarettes

1

u/OhBoyHereWeGoAgai 4h ago

I don't have kids or a religion, so I don't really care, but I don't get people dismissing parents who do take issue with this.

Why is this different than being led in a prayer to J man? Which ofc, would absolutely get support on here for people not wanting it.

1

u/Warm-Delivery1418 3h ago

This is my take when praying over students for protection and blessings for a good year.

Kidding. People would be foaming at the mouth.

1

u/aberrant_meat 3h ago

I’m not super into any spiritual practices being forced onto children. Obv if this is specifically a religious school and the parents are aware of it, who cares. But I always hated getting ashes on my forehead during Ash Wednesday and I was allergic to the incense they put out during mass, but they wouldn’t let me sit outside. I’m not catholic but I was still made to perform a bunch of Christian and Catholic rituals and I hate the idea of other kids being made to do similarly uncomfortable things just because it’s “harmless”

1

u/MisterPineapples1999 2h ago

My onky problem is, that's what passes for an "elder" now?

1

u/unconvincedhuman 2h ago

Ask if they’re a Shaman

1

u/Zestyclose_Jello6192 54m ago

Redditors would be foaming if a christian was doing this

1

u/PotatoDonki 9m ago

Second-hand smoke isn’t harmless. Where have you been? Too busy…smudging?

0

u/mallcopsarebastards 4h ago

it's not though. If you don't want people reciting bible verses or satanic rituals to your kids on their way into a public school then you can't have this either.

1

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

We can have it. And we are. You’re just miserable.

1

u/mallcopsarebastards 3h ago

You legally cannot. If a public school doesn't put a stop to this then the church of scientology can have someone wait at the door with a dianetics test for kids as they're entering and if the school tries to stop it the church would absolutely have grounds to sue the municipality.

1

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

Damn that’s crazy. You should start suing people or something. Have a nice day 👍

0

u/SignificantInside877 3h ago

Yea what if a religion you aren’t ok with did this to your child. What if it was a self proclaimed witch out there trying to put a hex on your child (even though we all know the witch thing and hexes are complete nonsense). There should not be a religious figure of any kind that is antithetical to the beliefs and values of this country, out there doing anything with your kids, period.

1

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

It’s not. You sound miserable. Go outside and breathe.

0

u/SnooPears4450 3h ago

I have pretty a pretty bad reaction to the stuff (and most fragrant incenses) so it would def be annoying to have someone stand in at the front entrance wafting the stuff for me

1

u/Amiibohunter000 3h ago

Just simply say “no thanks” and take a step to the side and pass them.

Do you struggle this much with every level of adversity?

1

u/SnooPears4450 3h ago

with fragrant incense yes, I have to stuff the cracks of my doors with towels and rags if someone wants to burn some in my house or suffer with a terrible fit of sneezing and coughing

1

u/Amiibohunter000 2h ago

We aren’t talking about in your house. This is outside. Just don’t walk by it.

Follow up question. Do you intentionally let your life be more difficult than needed bc you don’t want to deal with a small inconvenience?

1

u/SnooPears4450 2h ago

These scents can carry very far you know, do you intentionally ask stupid questions to people who may struggle with something you don't?

1

u/unconvincedhuman 3h ago

Yeah you should definitely stay inside away from things. Have a nice day.

1

u/SnooPears4450 3h ago

I do attempt to avoid things like this so you're right, i go out of my way to navigate around stalls that sell incense at the farmers market i go to and if i need something from near them i send a proxy. But if i was a student at this school it sure would be mighty inconvenient to have the main entrance of the school essentially blocked for me. I never said they shouldn't burn it you just said it was harmless and i let you know its not exactly harmless for me

-1

u/Ok_Warning6672 2h ago

Secondhand smoke no longer a thing?

1

u/EarlyAccessCantJudge 2h ago

Secondhand smoke is inhaling tobacco from someone smoking a cigarette or tobacco. Hence the secondhand part. This is not that.