Having kids is hard work. Even for a man who doesn't have suffer pregnancy nor breastfeeding, it's just been something that has taken over my life completely.

But i enjoy it. It's the best thing to ever happen to me beyond my wife. I simply wouldn't have it any other way.

Others too, often remark on how happy I look. They're right. I've never been happier. But there's an important prerequisite: I can be happy just watching my kids be happy.

I have very little time for things I enjoy doing as an individual. The kids get first dibs, and then it's my wife. But that's okay, my kids won't need me forever.

For the time being, I derive joy from the dynamic of between my children, watching them enjoy their childhood, live out the realisation of all my aspirations I could only dream of as a child, and step into some really big shoes as they build themselves up piece by piece to hopefully one day become a fantastic grownup.

The thrill I get from when my child accomplishes something they didn't think they could do is unlikely anything I've experienced before. It's truly glorious.

Given this is a natalist forum, I expect many of you here'll know what that feels like. But here's the thing: do you notice many people doing the same?

Taking our kids to a softplay or birthday party, me and my wife are usually the only ones that actually ENJOY watching our kids play. Most parents are either talking amongst themselves, using the opportunity to take a break and crack open a bottle of wine for some nice grownup banter, or even hovering over their child for an inability to let them learn from their mistakes.

I talk to any parent around us, the usual go-to banter is centred around the insufferable hardship of parenting and the joys of "me time" or thinly-veiled boasts on how gifted their child is.

In the midst of all this, my preaching of "80% of the time you spend with your children happens before the age of 11" often has no place.

To be clear; this is not meant as slander against parents with those kinds of preferences. In fact, their thinking is only natural.

Why would anyone dedicate their entire adult life to another human being? We don't need children to take care of us anymore - we have pensions for that sort of thing. It just makes no logical sense.

It's a fallacy. All the incentives and government support in the world wouldn't change a thing. Perhaps it could artificially boost the numbers a bit, sort of like how women in poor countries are being forced into surrogacy. But would you really be a good parent if the reason why you did it is because you made money doing it? Evidence seen here in the UK tells me otherwise.

No matter what, becoming a (good) parent is a loss of self. I view myself as having been remade anew, but I realise and accept that this view is an unpopular one. For most, parents don't WANT to be parents, they SUFFER it because wanting to be a parent often isn't logical. It's primal, and it's emotional.

Since women started having a choice and started receiving higher education, the enormous burden of suffering childbirth and is logical fallacies were exposed. Still, we're animals and our primal instincts will drive us to have children. But not for all.

Conservatively, even if only half the female population decide children aren't for them (a reality here in the UK); TFR suffers a massive blow. Amongst the other half of the women that do have kids; 1 child per woman would be TFR of 0.5, the ever-popular "two and done" would leave TFR at a meagre 1.

To get it even close to replacement rate, the remaining half would need to have 4 at least children each. As someone who's got experience in this, this does make me laugh. So many people have called me and my wife crazy. Amongst us millennials, we've even outdone many religious families.

And yes, we are odd. We'd rather have playfight sessions in the living room or cuddles on the couch over holidays in Spain, Italy or Greece. It's okay that the world around us isn't built for a family of 6, so that we've had to squeeze into our modest used car and or that eating out at most cafés is near impossible.

It's just unrealistic for people to want to live like us. I accept that, and would rather navigate through what provisions the world can make for that reality.

Due to casualties, territorial losses, and millions of refugees fleeing abroad, the population in government-controlled areas has dropped from roughly 42 million before the invasion to about 25 to 28 million.

Ukraine's mortality rate outpaces its birth rate nearly four to one. https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/reversing-ukraines-population-loss-after-four-years-of-war

They are fighting to protect a nation that is rapidly aging and shrinking. Statistics from Ukraine's Ministry of Justice show that in the first half of 2026 alone, roughly 73,000 babies were born while nearly 260,000 people died. Ukraine’s total fertility rate has dropped below 1.0 child per woman (well below the 2.1 needed to keep a population stable), making it one of the lowest in the world.

Even if Ukraine wins the war conventionally and secures its borders, the country faces an existential challenge to survive as a fully functioning society. A massive percentage of refugees will never return the longer the wars drags on.

Ukraine is rapidly moving toward a top-heavy system where there are more retirees than active workers. Even if Ukraine wins, it inherits a massive reconstruction bill (estimated at over $580 billion). Without a massive influx of young, able-bodied workers, Ukraine will not have the tax base to rebuild its cities, sustain its healthcare system, or pay pensions to a heavily traumatized, aging population.

Italy’s national statistics bureau, ISTAT, has released stark new demographic projections showing that the country's resident population is set to drop from 58.9 million to 55 million by 2050.

The trend is expected to plunge further to 45.8 million by 2080.

Italy's fertility rate sits at an ultra-low 1.14 children per woman. It is far below the 2.1 replacement rate.

EDIT: just proved my point. Nobody clustered or bashed the entire subreddit, but some people here are just misogynistic. Comments speak for themselves.

No hate, but I find a lot of commenters here have concerning views about women. I hope the mods will allow this post because it is important to what kind of community is formed on this crucial issue.

I see consistent narratives that blame women for the collapsing population:

“WOMEN ARE SELF MUTILATING AND NOT HAVING CHILDREN”

“WOMEN ARE MAKING IMMIGRATION A PROBLEM”

“WE SHOULD REVOKE THEIR RIGHTS SO POPULATION NUMBERS GROW”

You’re missing the point because you’re so blinded by the hatred of women, that it’s impossible for you to see that they’re humans, who act according to what they’re given.

No, women do not owe people kids. They do not owe society kids or the economic model. We’ve studied psychology for so long now, that we know a child born of obligation is doomed. Child psychology affirms us that a big problem of why mental illness prevails in society is because of faulty family models. Forced birth and childbearing is guaranteed to painfully fail an individual. Why would you wish that upon any mother and child?

A response is: “But why should we care about your rights then, if you contribute nothing to maintain society?”.

That’s a misdirected response.

Women, just like men, play the cards they’re given. Multiple factors are wrong, which is pushing singlehood for both genders. You can’t afford shit today, let alone bring a life into this world. Which, you cannot ethically do without economic support. Any ideologies, belief systems about “women wanna be sex workers”, feminism, gender wars, etc are just symptomatic of a bigger issue at hand.

The real “enemy” is a big wealth disparity causing people to afford less and less. It’s not your neighbour, it’s not your sister or your cousin, it’s not the career woman on TV.

If some of you stopped for a minute to empathize that, women are your partners in this issue, instead of your enemy, then you’d be truly ready to talk about Natalism. And what we could do to help.

But that’s not going to be achieved by voting women’s rights away, assaulting them, harassing them, or OSTRACIZING THEM by DEHUMANIZING their humanity. A lot of reactionary ideas have been rising lately, where women choose to hate on men online. Because of how society approaches them on this matter. And for the sake of empathy, men also hate on women as a result.

This is a skewed view. This is corrupted and won’t help the cause.

So, if you wanna get on here to discuss the issue, the first thing you ought to do is leave your disdain for women behind. It will get you nowhere.

Hungary has some of the most aggressive pro natalist policies in Europe, but the major ones only start kicking in after the third child.

When I am in the gym, and I want to lift, say, 50 kg, I first make my way to 30, then 40, then 50. Not go straight from 20 to 50. Wouldn't giving people incentives to have one or two kids work way better than three or four?

Especially if the incentives to go from one to two are massive, that's imo the section where the most progress can be made, as convincing people who are childless to have their first is way harder than convincing parents who already have one to have a second.

Definitely part of the problem governments must address.

Do you fear that the elites are deliberately suppressing fertility rates so that the children of the future will be made and controlled by them? If the government seizes control of reproduction, will they have the power to raise children with extreme loyalty to the state? Would you support a complete ban on human creation in laboratories? How will this impact war and the geopolitical situation? Is the natalist movement doomed if the political and economic establishment are against us?

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I've found myself periodically getting into long personal discussions with chatgpt. Human conversation can't remotely compete. It remembers everything you ever told it, it focusses just on you and what you wsnt to talk about, you can rell it anything it will never be shocked or offended, it learns the style of discussion and argument you most like, it's like talking to yourself in many ways, (and who doesn't secretly think they're actually the best?) and it provides better reasoned arguments than anyone you know. It will make socialising, and important part of relationship formation, much less appealing. If the smart phone and social media had an impact on fertility rates, AI will be even more powerful.

There seems to be an online trend of women saying they don’t want children. Some seem to take this as the main reason for the low birth rate. I think this is mostly a mistake.

A portion of women do not want children, and that is fine. Not everyone ought to have children, especially if they don’t want to. This was true also 50 years ago.

However, many women will say, when they are young, that they don’t want children, but change their mind when they get older and are in a different life situation.

Ireland (2021): 1.72
Philippines (2025): 1.70

Just in case you don’t know:
Ireland (2026): 1.49

If the Urbanization and contraceptives NPCs find a way to explain this one I am genuinely done bro 😭🙏

A win for us, right? I won't disclose my location or where im from a i dont want our reddit to be attacked or down voted. We voted on this. Majority of women didn't say yes. Some voted but mainly traditional women and men voted to pass it.

Its only allowed with rape to abort. This should increase our birthrate up. I vote against letting abortions be free because logic will tell u those are future workers. So we killing the workforce off with it.

Tell me what tzu think.

You can have jobs and be independent but abortion is a no. So you gotta be more responsible and toe the line with sexual partners.

Pregnancy is good. We need workers. So itsa must for society to move forward. Lets try to work things out. We females do have too much intercourse with less kids. It need to go back like it was. Maybe teen pregnancy is not a bad thing after all.

I was a teen mom and it really almost ruined me, but thanks to my husband and family been supportive enough I got through school. I really wanted to be a teacher but my daughters are a gift.

How are we gonna support capitalism without losing our culture as with immigration? This is rhe the way. All women have equal rights. And we minus abortion as irs murder. Thoughts?

6 hours of work + 2 hours for getting ready, travel, rest after work etc = an actual 8 hour work schedule.

4 days per week = more time for couples & parents to be free, so having a child doesn't affect your freedom as much.

A 3 day, 9/10/11 hour per day work week could be interesting too. Basically work half the week & free time for the rest.

I have noticed that many who bring up actual solutions like improving conditions for women to be at home, bachelor taxes, more religion, etc. (Which are solutions to the problem and worth doing or investigating) are frequently brigaded and down voted into oblivion here. And therefore anyone who brings up ideas and solutions eventually become black pilled because this sub is astroturfed or flooded by those who don't want a solution and are essentially anti natalists, or people who want their cake and to eat it too