r/OrthodoxChristianity • u/elvislittledarlin • 1d ago
Converting
I’m a full blooded Native American, I’m seventeen, I grew up in our traditional ways of the iroqouis, ceremonies and culture. I’m very involved and very knowledgeable of the culture especially in our religious ways. But I’ve always been drawn to Christianity ever since I was a little girl.
A few months back I had a dream, a dream that I was in an Orthodox Church and I was praying, that’s was it. In my culture dreams are very important, they tell us and show us things that need our attention. To my research, in orthodox Christianity dreams aren’t really a huge spiritual window or insight, they’re more so dismissed, but please correct me and educate me if I am wrong!!
I have been researching orthodox Christianity and what they believe in, the more I research the more drawn I am to it and the more it resonates with me. I am a bit confused right now I guess you could say, I’ve researched Catholicism, Protestantism and even Buddhism but none of it stuck with me like orthodox Christianity did.
In my culture as part of the Iroquois we have this thing called “the code of handsome lake”, it’s very Christian influenced. I follow it more than I do our great law. My dad would 100% disown me if I ever converted to Christianity, and as much as I love and respect my father, I’ve lost faith in what I had been taught from him.
My questions are, how do I begin learning more? Are there any good books on orthodox Christianity for beginners? Does the type (Russian, greek, Romanian, etc) matter?
Thank you!
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u/Karohalva 1d ago
I once met a woman from Alaska who told the story that her ancestors greeted the first Russian monk who arrived at their village, saying, "The elders were visited in a dream and told to await a man in black from the West. He has a message you must hear. What is it?"
That was her story, anyway.
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u/Okiegolfer Eastern Orthodox 1d ago
Small world, I’m also Iroquois (Seneca-Cayuga)
Handsome Lakes moral code is taken from the Gospel. I can send a table later, if I can find it, that demonstrates this. His original message is supposed to point people towards the Gospel and its meaning, it sounds like it did its job almost 300 years later!
Have you read death and rebirth of the Seneca?
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u/elvislittledarlin 1d ago
Oh my heck small world indeed! I’m Oneida and Mohawk. I have not read the death and rebirth of the Seneca but teachings of the longhouse by Jake Thomas, Cayuga chief from six nay. It’s a very good book it goes somewhat in depth of the code. I’ve meet with
His wife once too she’s also a knowledgeable woman!
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u/stebrepar Eastern Orthodox 1d ago
I think it's not that dreams should be dismissed outright per se, but more that they can mislead us and puff us up thinking we're receiving special spiritual revelation. So the safest course is to not allow ourselves to be led around by them, and perhaps to seek counsel from someone spiritually ahead of us and trustworthy. Besides, if God really wants to get a specific message through to us, he'll somehow manage it even if we're humbly distrusting dreams.
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u/silouan Orthodox Priest 1d ago
Maybe this book will be of interest: Orthodox Alaska is about how the Native peoples in Alaska encountered Orthodoxy, and it opens up some surprising ways the Orthodox faith connected with the Natives' faith.
I don't mean to say Yup'ik and Iroquois cultures are the same -- but the writer helpfully looks at Orthodoxy from the point of view of outsiders, non-Russians. When I was learning about Orthodox Christianity, this book helped me grasp some things in the Eastern Christian [and Native Alaskan] worldview that made sense, and were new to me as a Protestant.
May God bless your journey!
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u/mrplopman1 1d ago
You have to see the film Sacred Alaska! I watched it maybe 4 or 5 months ago. It's about the Native Amarican population in Alaska that still exists and their history in a very beautiful and informative documentary. I quite enjoyed it and I think it may be worth watching given your background :D
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u/stantlitore Eastern Orthodox 1d ago
So, about dreams: Dreams do indeed tell us and show us things, and our tradition is filled with such accounts. Our tradition is also filled with accounts of dreams leading people astray, because varied spiritual powers can use dreams to deceive us. It's not that we distrust dreams on principle but that within the Church, we take a cautious approach to testing where and who a dream came from. (Little Samuel, when a child, received counsel and instruction from his priest, Eli, on how to respond when God was calling him in a dream.)
There is certainly precedent for gentle dreams of the kind you described being sent to people outside the Orthodox community who live in families and communities in which Orthodoxy is rare, not present, or might be received with hostility. (I've spoken with converts from Muslim-majority countries who had such dreams.) As you have had a dream about praying in an Orthodox Church, if you go to services there and if your dream was true and from God, then I believe God will be there and will draw nearer to you and draw you nearer to him, in prayers, through his people, or in others ways I could not anticipate.
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u/Seashells-in-ears Eastern Orthodox 1d ago
Others have covered the dreams nuance, but your post reminded that one important piece of evidence considered when the church was in the process of canonizing St Olga of Alaska was that she appeared in dreams to multiple people. As for resources, the "type" or jurisdiction doesn't matter (just make sure you're clear on Eastern Orthodox Churches vs Oriental Orthodox churches-- they are completely separate but both get called Orthodox generally). As for resources, if you didn't catch it in the automod comment, there's a free ebook linked in the sidebar. God bless!
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u/Southern-Airline-794 Eastern Orthodox 1d ago
So, I don’t know if this has already been said, but there was a Mohawk Chief who was secretly baptized an Orthodox Christian: Frank (Vladimir) Natawe
Read about his story here, I read it, and even though I’m not Native American, it was a very beautiful and awe-inspiring one
https://www.archdiocese.ca/first-nation-chiefs-secret-path-orthodoxy
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u/elvislittledarlin 1d ago
Oh wow okayy, considering I’m half and come from chiefs myself that really resonates with me. People really only talk about one Mohawk woman who was a saint, Kateri. She was catholic though.
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u/Southern-Airline-794 Eastern Orthodox 1d ago
Yeah, there's a Catholic Church near my house and they have a plaque and a piece of land honoring her. But, even in Orthodoxy, we have our fair share of Native American representation. I'm sure the two saints of St. Olga of Alaska and St. Peter the Aleut have been mentioned
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u/elvislittledarlin 1d ago
I just read that article you shared and I loved it so much! I’m from kahnawake so when I seen his name I was like what the heck I’ve heard of this man!!
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u/Southern-Airline-794 Eastern Orthodox 23h ago
That's so crazy, the world is really a small place. Did any of your family or community know of his secret life as an Orthodox Christian after his death? Since he was a famous chief and Longhouse legal mediator in his community, and he had an Orthodox Christian funeral alongside the traditional Mohawk one, it makes one wonder.
But I actually stumbled upon this article when I was doing my own research about any overlapping between Orthodoxy and the Haudenosaunee, since I met a representative from the Mohawk Nation when I was younger at my primary school and he introduced me to everything. Also, I did enjoy playing as Ratonhnhaké:ton in Assassin's Creed 3 too lol
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u/elvislittledarlin 23h ago
lol, we didn’t really know after that either. How we conduct our death protocol is that on the day of the funeral, early in the morning the body is in the house after the final viewing the all night wakes. So in the article where it says that the orthodox priest said his rites in the morning before his body was taken to the longhouse the only ones that would’ve seen that would have been his very close family and friends! His family seemed like they were all longhouse people, gossiping is a sin to us :) he died two years before I was even brought into this world, so I never got to meet him.
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u/Southern-Airline-794 Eastern Orthodox 15h ago
I see, alright thanks for the insight and teaching me something new. Gossiping is also a sin in Orthodoxy, but you should see the coffee hours at a Greek Orthodox Church.
Also, before I forget, for books, where can I start? I have a bunch that I love to read in Greek, but I'm guessing they won't help you. In English, I have For the Life of the World by the late Fr. Alexander Schmemann, and also, if you would like to be bold, you can buy the Orthodox Study Bible- it's 30 USD on Amazon. It's good because it has commentary from the Church Fathers about the Old and New Testament and with Orthodox Theology. I have other recommendations, but perhaps, since you are new on your journey, they may be a little too overwhelming, but I would gladly recommend them for you down the line if you will be still interested
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u/Belgraviana Eastern Orthodox (Byzantine Rite) 1d ago
I’d like to bring up in reference to your comment about dreams, I’m not sure exactly how orthodoxy would/does interact with Iroquois belief specifically. But there are examples of traditions that started out as non orthodox being used in local orthodox churches. Serbians have slava lielly from pre Christian paganism. The Japanese church has a Christianised version of ancestor “worship” which is important in East Asian cultures. And the spirit boxes of Alaskan natives were adopted by the Russian church there. There may or my not be existing examples with Iroquois traditions but id definitely asks priest if he knows or knows where to look for it
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u/elvislittledarlin 1d ago
Thank you! From what I understand so far is there is not much interaction between Iroquois beliefs and orthodoxy, I like how set and rooted it is. As with my original beliefs it’s more so everything is scattered around and people almost pick and choose what they want to believe in and what they don’t even though it’s all under one thing!
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u/ollikoll 1d ago
Well dismissing dreams is the correct way but that dream is pretty clearly call to the church from the good spirits (i dont know how to word it lol) i know one guy who converted because of miraculous dream. Enjoying and appreciating signs like that is ok if there is no boasting or comparing to others or thinking you are special
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u/ArthurBurton777 Inquirer 1d ago
Great to hear about your journey.
It is powerful how you were guided to Orthodoxy and how drawn to it you feel.
For me- I learn things by doing- so I would suggest- doing some Orthodox Prayers.
In Orthodoxy- there is the idea of a "Prayer Rule" which is a fancy way of saying a set of Prayers you do every morning and evening.
It is individualistic (often discussed with a priest) but you can start now praying every morning and evening.
Someone here can help you "build" a prayer rule.
Here is a talk by a Bishop about how to LIVE Orthodoxy. I have cued it right up to where he comments on a part of the Gospel (teachings of Christ) and comments on it.
https://youtu.be/SFvt4cZ9v-s?si=p5B6Q-NqapQ12AMr&t=221
Also here is a Youtube Playlist called: "The Way. An Introductory Course in Orthodoxy." It should give you a great overview and foundation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsm23T1MtlE&list=PL9W0GMTGCOPlPoz5il76Ysc3oCFvPlTxs
Keep sharing, keep asking.
Ps. One Priest I watched a video of gave some great advice- GO SLOW.
There is a lot to learn- and you don't want to overwhelm the mind with information.
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u/elvislittledarlin 1d ago
Thank you so much, I posted this thinking I would get some negativity or be unaccepted but everyone has been so accepting and helpful, thank you again your help is not going to waste 😁
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u/ArthurBurton777 Inquirer 1d ago
Orthodox Christians are not perfect.... and it's a REALLY good group of people.
Happy to help in anyway I can.
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u/elvislittledarlin 1d ago
Yes, the closest Orthodox Church to me is Russian. Once my car gets an oil change I think I may just go.
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u/Spicy-Nun-chucks 13h ago
I am also Native (Cherokee Nation) and converted to Orthodoxy when I was 17 years old. I still attend ceremonies and go to the stomp grounds. The difference is, when I'm dancing around the fire, I am always praying to Jesus Christ and not just Creator. When I smudge my house with cedar and an eagle feather, I go from room to room and say, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner". When Orthodoxy came to Alaska, it was their goal to integrate not assimilate the Natives. They took on and accepted some of their cultural practices. I think Native culture and Orthodoxy can go together nicely.
Just as a disclaimer: I have posted about my native ways before here on this Orthodoxy subreddit and I was shredded to pieces over it. You have to be careful getting your information from forums and such. A lot of them can be toxic. I would recommend the first step is reading and talking to an actual priest. I recommend the book called "The Mountain of Silence".
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u/elvislittledarlin 13h ago
That’s really nice. As much as I am drawn to orthodoxy I don’t think I could fully abandon my culture, it’s all I’ve known my whole life. But thank you for sharing how you mix the two!
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u/elvislittledarlin 13h ago
Thank you!! So many books to read but that’s good cause I do love reading!
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u/VoxulusQuarUn Eastern Orthodox 17h ago
Dreams are a way that God does call to some people. It isn't that we don't believe that dreams can have meanings, but rather that we shy away from trying to find understanding from the mundane.
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u/elvislittledarlin 13h ago
I see. I understand it now with all the explaining everyone has done, thank you!!
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u/ketka_zva Eastern Orthodox 8h ago
Glory to Christ for instilling in you the will and joy to find the Truth as left by God! it doesn't matter what parish you join as long as it is not Oriental (Armenian and the sorts). Each parish has its own cultural identity and language and that is the only thing that makes them distinct. Absolutely go where you feel most at home and where you are called to be.
As a Romanian, I wish to recommend you extensively to look for writings of St. Dumitru Stăniloaie, St. Elijah/Ilie Cleopa, Fr. George Calciu, Fr. Nicolae Steinhardt, prison saints, etc. as a news and orthodox outlets, we have basilica.ro/en/, doxologia.ro, crestinortodox.ro which I can recommend to read with the page translation feature, if your browser supports it. I hope they will be of great help to you.
May you be strengthened to pursue orthodox tradition and may your heart be rid of doubts, worries, and evil from the earthly!
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u/AD121219 1d ago
I’d start with reading about Saint Herman and Innocent of Alaska. They were two Russia Orthodox Missionaries who converted most of the Native Americans in Alaska to Orthodox Christianity. If I remember St. Herman went to jail for protecting the Aleuts from Russia colonists who were trying to enslave them.