r/OrthodoxChristianity 1d ago

Subreddit Coffee Hour

2 Upvotes

While the topic of this subreddit is the Eastern Orthodox faith we all know our lives consist of much more than explicit discussions of theology or praxis. This thread is where we chat about anything you like; tell us what's going on in your life, post adorable pictures of your baby or pet if you have one, answer the questions if the mods remember to post some, or contribute your own!

So, grab a cup of coffe, joe, java, espresso, or other beverage and let's enjoy one another's digital company.


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r/OrthodoxChristianity 1d ago

Prayer Requests

6 Upvotes

This thread for requests that users of the subreddit remember names and concerns in their prayers at home, or at the Divine Liturgy on Sunday.

Because we pray by name, it is good to have a name to be prayed for and the need. Feel free to use any saint's name as a pseudonym for privacy. For example, "John" if you're a man or "Maria" for a woman. God knows our intent.

This thread will be replaced each Saturday.


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r/OrthodoxChristianity 5h ago

Saint Simeon Stylites, the Elder (September 1st/14th)

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63 Upvotes

Saint Simeon the Stylite was born in the Cappadocian village of Sisan of Christian parents, Sisotian and Martha. At thirteen years of age he began to tend his father’s flock of sheep. He devoted himself attentively and with love to this, his first obedience.

Once, after he heard the Beatitudes in church, he was struck by their profundity. Not trusting to his own immature judgment, he turned therefore with his questions to an experienced Elder. The Elder readily explained to the boy the meaning of what he had heard. The seed fell on good soil, and it strengthened his resolve to serve God.

When Simeon was eighteen, he received monastic tonsure and devoted himself to feats of the strictest abstinence and unceasing prayer. His zeal, beyond the strength of the other monastic brethren, so alarmed the igumen that he told Simeon that to either moderate his ascetic deeds or leave the monastery.

Saint Simeon then withdrew from the monastery and lived in an empty well in the nearby mountains, where he was able to carry out his austere struggles unhindered. After some time, angels appeared in a dream to the igumen, who commanded him to bring back Simeon to the monastery.

The monk, however, did not long remain at the monastery. After a short while he settled into a stony cave, situated not far from the village of Galanissa, and he dwelt there for three years, all the while perfecting himself in monastic feats. Once, he decided to spend the entire forty days of Great Lent without food or drink. With the help of God, the monk endured this strict fast. From that time he abstained from food completely during the entire period of the Great Lent, even from bread and water. For twenty days he prayed while standing, and for twenty days while sitting, so as not to permit the corporeal powers to relax.

A whole crowd of people began to throng to the place of his efforts, wanting to receive healing from sickness and to hear a word of Christian edification. Shunning worldly glory and striving again to find his lost solitude, the monk chose a previously unknown mode of asceticism. He went up a pillar six to eight feet high, and settled upon it in a little cell, devoting himself to intense prayer and fasting.

Reports of Saint Simeon reached the highest church hierarchy and the imperial court. Patriarch Domninos II (441-448) of Antioch visited the monk, celebrated Divine Liturgy on the pillar and communed the ascetic with the Holy Mysteries.

Elders living in the desert heard about Saint Simeon, who had chosen a new and strange form of ascetic striving. Wanting to test the new ascetic and determine whether his extreme ascetic feats were pleasing to God, they sent messengers to him, who in the name of these desert fathers were to bid Saint Simeon to come down from the pillar.

In the case of disobedience they were to forcibly drag him to the ground. But if he was willing to submit, they were to leave him on his pillar. Saint Simeon displayed complete obedience and deep Christian humility. The monks told him to stay where he was, asking God to be his helper.

Saint Simeon endured many temptations, and he invariably gained the victory over them. He relied not on his own weak powers, but on the Lord Himself, Who always came to help him. The monk gradually increased the height of the pillar on which he stood. His final pillar was 80 feet in height. Around him a double wall was raised, which hindered the unruly crowd of people from coming too close and disturbing his prayerful concentration.

Women, in general, were not permitted beyond the wall. The saint did not make an exception even for his own mother, who after long and unsuccessful searches finally succeeded in finding her lost son. He would not see her, saying, “If we are worthy, we shall see one another in the life to come.” Saint Martha submitted to this, remaining at the foot of the pillar in silence and prayer, where she finally died. Saint Simeon asked that her coffin be brought to him. He reverently bid farewell to his dead mother, and a joyful smile appeared on her face.

Saint Simeon spent 80 years in arduous monastic feats, 47 years of which he stood upon the pillar. Many pagans accepted Baptism, struck by the moral staunchness and bodily strength which the Lord bestowed upon His servant.

The first one to learn of the death of the saint was his close disciple Anthony. Concerned that his teacher had not appeared to the people for three days, he went up on the pillar and found the dead body stooped over at prayer. Patriarch Martyrius of Antioch performed the funeral before a huge throng of clergy and people. They buried him near his pillar. At the place of his ascetic deeds, Anthony established a monastery, upon which rested the special blessing of Saint Simeon.

We pray to Saint Simeon for the return to the Church of those who have forsaken Her, or have been separated from Her.

SOURCE: https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/2026/09/01/102448-saint-simeon-stylites-the-elder


r/OrthodoxChristianity 2h ago

Prayer Request I am inquiring and my girlfriend is a witch

25 Upvotes

I am at a crossroads it seems. I need prayer.

Orthodoxy is the truth.

After years of being in the occult, doing spells, and other debauchery I have realized none of it leads anywhere good. There is no end to the insanity, only more insanity.

I want to go towards what I believe is right— what is truth, love, and hope. But I know that my girlfriend who is still firmly in the occult probably wouldn't like that idea.

As I've gotten more into Christianity, she has pulled back on her own occultism but I don't know how much is to give me space or her own change of heart.

I love her. I don't want her to be cast down such a dark road. I can't expect her to change for me. But I don't know if I can stay with her if I pursue baptism.

Please pray for her. Please pray for me.

Any advice? Thank you


r/OrthodoxChristianity 2h ago

What is your opinion on the thinkers of modernity?

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15 Upvotes

Pictured above…
-The Existentialists: Albert Camus, Nietzsche, Jean-Paul Sartre, Kierkegaard, Franz Kafka, and Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

-Revolutionary pioneers in natural science and psychology: Carl Jung, Sigmund Freud, and Charles Darwin.

-Contributors to modern political science: Marx, Engels, John Stuart Mills, Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

-Other notable Enlightenment/modernist philosophers: Schopenhauer, Hegel, Descartes, Pascal, and Hume.

Christianity is characterized by having its own philosophical tradition that is very rich and intellectually thorough, but traditionally it has also drawn from the wisdom of the ancients, searching each philosophy for contents that reflect that which is Good, True, and Beautiful.

There is an incontrovertible link between Christian thought, and the Greco-Roman philosophers. Notable Christian thinkers have studied and learned from the writings of the Stoics, of Aristotle, of Plato, of Cicero, etc. In this way, Greco-Roman philosophy has prevailed throughout history as the philosophical bedrock of Christianity.

Something similar can be said regarding ancient Asian religious philosophies, which offer much to gleam from for Christians. The book “Christ the Eternal Tao”, written through an Eastern Orthodox lens, argues that the Daoist religion finds its fulfilment in Christ’s Incarnation; to demonstrate this, the author examines the immense similarities shared between Christianity and the Daoist worldview. Likewise, the Catholic thinker Thomas Merton dedicated his life to studying the Asian philosophies, especially Buddhism, for the sake of comparative theology and ecumenical dialogue, and wrote many books on the subject.

So, we can observe that Christians have been able to find wisdom even within these ancient philosophies. Even though these ancient philosophies are considered heterodox, and are not totally aligned with what Christians recognize to be definitively true, these philosophies still contain seeds of the Logos regardless.

Can modernist thinkers be studied in a similar fashion? If the most heterodox ancient belief systems were not rejected by ancient Christians, but rather, were exhausted of whatever truths they did contain, can the same approach not be performed in favour of modernist philosophies? If Marcus Aurelius is upheld as a wise and virtuous man (despite also being a pantheist), can wisdom also be found in the writings of Camus, Sartre, Jung, Marx, or even Nietzsche? Have there been any Christian thinkers who, in the modern-day, have seriously engaged with and analyzed those thinkers, breaking down their work for all that which is Good, True, and Beautiful? Where is the Thomas Merton of Absurdism, Existentialism, or Jung-ism?

And finally, to restate the question in the post title: what about you? What do you think? Where do these thinkers fit into your beliefs, and what wisdoms or insights might you draw from them? Please do share. I would love to learn.

Feel free to express criticisms of these thinkers, of course, though I would also ask that we stay intellectually humble and gracious, recognizing that Goodness, Truth, and Beauty can be found in various places, and that what is folly to one person may be wisdom to another. Stay open-minded! :)

I look forward to discussing these!


r/OrthodoxChristianity 4h ago

Are there any Romanians here?

20 Upvotes

I’d like to know if there are any other Romanians here.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 5h ago

Ecclesiastical New Year (September 1st)

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25 Upvotes

The First Ecumenical Council (Nicaea, 325) decreed that the Church year should begin on September 1. The month of September was, for the Hebrews, the beginning of the civil year (Exodus 23:16), the month of gathering the harvest and of the offering of thanks to God. It was on this feast that the Lord Jesus entered the synagogue in Nazareth (Luke 4:16-21), opened the book of the Prophet Isaiah and read the words: The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me; because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek; He hath sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn (Isaiah 61:1-2). The month of September is also important in the history of Christianity, because Emperor Constantine the Great was victorious over Maxentius, the enemy of the Christian Faith, in September. Following this victory, Constantine granted freedom of confession to the Christian Faith throughout the Roman Empire. For a long time, the civil year in the Christian world followed the Church year, with its beginning on September 1. The civil year was later changed, and its beginning transferred to January 1. This occurred first in Western Europe, and later in Russia, under Peter the Great.

(From Saint Nikolai Velimirovic, The Prologue of Ohrid – Volume Two.)

SOURCE: https://goarchdiocese.ca/ecclesiastical-new-year-beginning-of-the-indiction-2/


r/OrthodoxChristianity 55m ago

September 1: the first day of the Ecclesiastical New Year

Upvotes

Happy New Year, everyone!

In my church tradition, we set an icon of Christ outside the night before and bring it in in the morning-- so Christ is the first visitor inside your house in the New Year. I forgot this and woke up remembering the date, so I grabbed an icon of St Herman of Alaska and went outside with him and came back in.

How does everyone else honor this day?


r/OrthodoxChristianity 2h ago

I want to convert to Orthodox Christianity although I have some issues at the moment and need help.

4 Upvotes

I am a 16-year-old from Cape Town looking to transition from a Baptist background to Eastern Orthodoxy. While I believe in the Holy Trinity, I feel my current spiritual life is distant and I am seeking a deeper connection, theological learning, and mentorship from an Orthodox priest. I resonate with the spiritual focus of the Orthodox Church and its lack of political involvement compared to other denominations.

However, I face practical challenges: I do not have a car, and the nearest Orthodox parishes are over an hour away or in unsafe areas. I am submitting this to ask for guidance on how I can safely begin learning, praying, and connecting with the Church from home.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 6h ago

Tempted to Catholicism

7 Upvotes

I've been a Catechumen for over 2 years. Yet I'm still feeling drawn to Catholicism. Mostly just the simplicity of the Pope, how he's a clear locus of unity around which to know where the visible Church is. Also, the fact that Catholicism is the largest body of Christians in the world and has evangelized the whole world, much resembling the Mustard Tree from Christ's parables which grows to be the largest tree. Speaking of trees and seeds, the Catholics seem to me much more honest about how their doctrines develop over time out of seeds, whereas many Orthodox seem to insist that the Church hasn't changed at all since the Apostles or even since the Schism, which really isn't true, though the Orthodox Church has changed a lot less over time than Catholics for sure.

Ironically, the main thing keeping me away from Catholicism, at least intellectually, is also the Pope. Saint Justin Popovich writes really well on this, how the Pope is effectively a Church unto himself and acts as an unnecessary middle man between Christ and His direct presence in His own body, and that Catholic ecclesiology effectively de-incarnates and banishes Christ back into heaven, leaving the Pope to occupy His place.

But idk. It seems like no matter what argument either side comes up with, there's another one to counter it. So it's gotta be an issue of the heart. And my heart is mostly Orthodoxy, and has been for over two years, yet lately it's also been warming up to Catholicism. I might soon be at a place where even my heart is divided.

I should also note that I've never actually been to a Catholic Mass before. Orthodoxy is all I know experientially, as far as Churches go.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 8h ago

Same God as the Muslims and Jews

12 Upvotes

Do Orthodox Christian’s believe that they worship the same God as the Muslims and Jews? I’ve seen videos of the patriarch of Constantinople saying that.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 19h ago

Just like so many wives, my husband is wanting to convert to Orthodox Christianity

82 Upvotes

Hey everyone! Thanks for reading this post. I'll make this brief.

My husband has become very serious about visiting the Orthodox Church, and it sounds like he wants to convert. He is starting to believe that the Orthodox Church is how Christ intended the church to be. I believe this to be truly genuine since my husband is a deep thinker and a seeker of truth, and so this isn't surprising.

His behavior, however is beginning to shift. The positives are that he has been more adamant on helping around the house. He seems to be trying to show me more love and care, which I need because my body is still very much recovering in post partum. He seems much more attentive, and a big change is that he seems to be playing less video games. That's a win!

He is, however, beginning to interrogate me and others. He seems to be thriving on the "gotcha" moments, when it comes to baptism, praying to the saints, etc. It was a shock for his friend who came to visit, and my husband was called out on his behavior towards both of us, particularly seeming bossy towards me.

Basically, my gentle husband is now becoming a master debater. It's come to the point where I've asked him to no longer speak about the Orthodox Church to me, because it does nothing but make me feel inferior and discouraged. I explained to him that his behavior was not winning me over, and it seems that he is more passionate on convincing others of the validity of the Orthodox Church than speaking of Christ, which is who he was before. I think it's because of some of the influencers that he listens to, because he had me listen and the person seemed so arrogant. It was a complete turn off. Also, I want our daughter to see us as a team, and when he brings up the Orthodox Church, it causes strife.

Is there anything I can say to him, to help him realize the behavior he is beginning to display is not very winning? It is so disheartening. I've read from other posts that this behavior isn't what a priest would encourage, and that makes me feel reassured. But what about in the meantime?

Edit: I forgot to mention, we currently are very involved at a Baptist church, with some Calvin teachings.

Thanks.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 3h ago

Can someone please give me some advice on how to make a "Chotki" prayer rope?

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3 Upvotes

Recently, I watched a few videos on how to make "Chotki" prayer knots. I think I got down the basics, but when I go to tighten the rope it doesn't tighten like I've seen in the videos. Moreover, the knot that I get doesn't look like the knots from the videos. I've attached a link to a video that I recorded of me making the rope. I would be grateful and thankful if someone could give me some advice/tell me where I went wrong. God bless.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 1h ago

Why is the chronology of events all jumbled up in the Prologue from Ohrid's entry for the Massacre of the Innocents?

Upvotes

The entry, on December 29, goes:

>After murdering the children of Bethlehem, Herod turned against the Jewish elders who had revealed to him where the Messiah would be born. He then killed Hyrcanes, the high priest, and the seventy elders of the Sanhedrin. Thus, they who had agreed with Herod that the new Child-king must be killed came to an evil end. After that, Herod murdered his brother, sister, wife and three sons. Finally, God’s punishment came to him…

But, he killed the high priest Hyrcanus II in 30 BC. He killed a lot of the Sanhedrin in 37 BC. He killed three of his sons in 7 then 4 (or 1) BC.

Surely St. Nikolai didn't mean to imply that the Massacre of the Innocents happened before 37 BC, right? But, then, how did he end up essentially telescoping these events all the way to the end of Herod's reign, after the Massacre of the Innocents?


r/OrthodoxChristianity 22h ago

Rev. Dmitry Smirnoff about fasting

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81 Upvotes

And so a Great Lent begins. It's a time of repentance. And people will flock to confession. They'll tell stories about who ate a cheesecake, who ate a cookie without noticing that it said it was made with butter — oh yeah, serious sins, for which they should be burned at the stake, simmered over low heat, doused with olive oil. But in reality, that's not what you need to repent of. What you need to repent of is that you're an ungrateful beast!.. That you have no kind feelings for anyone. That you're merciless. You're indifferent to those in need. That you lack a single Christian quality!

Repentance means changing your life so that you can acquire Christian qualities. And the most important Christian quality is what Christ said: "You act for your neighbor without any selfish gain, because you have compassion for him." The most important thing in life isn't providing for your own home, but helping your neighbor, who comes to you for help!.. And who doesn't even come. Because one is sick and can't come, another is in prison and can't come. A third doesn't even know where to go. If you're a Christian, you should go to them. – "So what? Should I think about others?" – Of course not, if you're not a Christian! But if you are a Christian, yes. You should think about them first, and then – if time permits you – maybe about yourself. But only that, secondarily.

And if you're not doing so, then you need to repent. Not for eating too many cookies – because it's still about yourself, my dear!.. Now you need to change your mindset, and this change in mindset is... a repentance. Then Lent will be Lent.

We must reorient ourselves so that we try to live a Christian life, at least for the forty days and seven more during Holy Week. At least to feel what it is.

Ancient Christians generally fasted — they didn't eat meat or fish — to earn some money, and then they spent the money they saved: they gave it to the poor. Or they bought clothes for this money, and gave them to poor people. So there was a benefit in it! It wasn't just, so to speak, "I'll lose weight at the same time." Health, benefit—again, benefit to whom?!.. To me. So that "everything would be fine" for me. For God, there is no situation more disgusting than this.

Because the Church, according to His, Christ's, design, is a gathering not of people who serve themselves, but of people who choose serving others as the meaning of their lives. This is what is put first. And if this has happened to a person, then repentance has also happened to them. If not, then no.

That's why Christ says: "Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord! Lord!...'" (Matthew 7:22). And He will say, "...depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23).

Because this man lived, thought, felt, and spoke in a manner that was anything but Christian. Therefore, throughout our lives, we all face a very long journey of changing our consciousness, changing our hearts, and changing the direction of our lives. This is Christianity, however, based on the Holy Scriptures we have all had the good fortune to hear today. May the Lord save us all.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 9h ago

Elders who see, Romania.

7 Upvotes

Are there elders with this charisma in Romania?


r/OrthodoxChristianity 13h ago

Im in a border of $u1c1de...

14 Upvotes

Im regreting of my past mistakes and cant accept it. Thankfully my conscience is clean and ive never hurted someone physically or i never hurted someone that much psychically. But im hurted personally, im ashamed of my past me, i was deep into my depression and anxiety and they ruined my whole life. Wishing i can turn to god and then start a new life but im afraid that my past gonna have consequences and affect the future me and that something bad may happen.

If the temptation that im going in is a start as a reminder to turn to christ or it is a consequence of my past mistake i will never know.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 4h ago

Looking for Orthodox Christian Couples / Marriage Counselor

2 Upvotes

My girlfriend and I are discerning marriage. We have been with each other for just over a year. We are both Orthodox Christians and share a lot of values. But we also fight a lot and intensely. We would like to talk to an Orthodox marriage counselor before moving further. And yes, we have talked to our priest. Individually and as a couple. He is a busy man and has not had the time to guide us through our struggles. If any of you know someone who could help, we would be very thankful!


r/OrthodoxChristianity 9h ago

Understanding Eastern Orthodoxy Epistemology

5 Upvotes

Hi all, I am a latter day saint. I have conversations with different faiths all the time, and i want to understand how EO know they are the true church. I have a had a number of conversations with them, and they seem to me to be saying we reference those in the century(s) following the new testament and see teachings are inline with theirs, and the lds church, for example, doesnt line up with what, say, the bishops in the 2nd century taught, therefore my church isnt a continuation of that church.

As a latter day saint, i affirm a great apostacy and restoration of christs church. It feels like they are telling me to assume their worldview is true, then judge mine by it. Am i misunderstanding the argument?


r/OrthodoxChristianity 2h ago

The Shepherd of Prague: The Martyrdom of Saint Gorazd of Bohemia

1 Upvotes

I recently picked up this ebook from Amazon as a free "kindle unlimited" book. St Gorazd is my patron saint and there isn't much written about him and I was thrilled to see it.

However, after reading the first 5 chapters, I have a very strong suspicion that it is AI written. Now, as someone who work in IT and does a fair amount of programming with AI, I'm not opposed to AI being used in a technical sense fixing grammar, spelling, or even outlining and checking things like logical consistency. However, I am strongly opposed to it being used to actually write prose and that's what this feels like. If the author did not do his own research and verified that it is all true, then this book is nearly worthless. The wikipedia page has more weight.

This is not a post to gripe about AI. My question for you folks is, does anyone here actually know the author, James Mamone, and can vouch that he actually researched his books in depth (there's a lot of details here that would be hard to find)?

BTW, Friday the 4th is St Gorazd of Prague's day.

Troparion — Tone 4

Orthodox leader and restorer of the Moravian Church, / Godly chief shepherd, Father Gorazd! / With joy, you suffered for the Truth. / Pray to our gracious God to save our souls!

Kontakion — Tone 2

Amid currents of uncertainty, you remained in truth like the hardest diamond, / and you preached to your native land Orthodoxy -- the way of salvation. / After a God-favored life as a teacher of the Gospel, O high priest and shepherd, / you patiently and bravely received the martyrs’ crown from Christ the Savior. / O Martyr, Enlightener, Father Gorazd, pray for us in the Kingdom of God.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 1d ago

Converting

63 Upvotes

I’m a full blooded Native American, I’m seventeen, I grew up in our traditional ways of the iroqouis, ceremonies and culture. I’m very involved and very knowledgeable of the culture especially in our religious ways. But I’ve always been drawn to Christianity ever since I was a little girl.

A few months back I had a dream, a dream that I was in an Orthodox Church and I was praying, that’s was it. In my culture dreams are very important, they tell us and show us things that need our attention. To my research, in orthodox Christianity dreams aren’t really a huge spiritual window or insight, they’re more so dismissed, but please correct me and educate me if I am wrong!!

I have been researching orthodox Christianity and what they believe in, the more I research the more drawn I am to it and the more it resonates with me. I am a bit confused right now I guess you could say, I’ve researched Catholicism, Protestantism and even Buddhism but none of it stuck with me like orthodox Christianity did.

In my culture as part of the Iroquois we have this thing called “the code of handsome lake”, it’s very Christian influenced. I follow it more than I do our great law. My dad would 100% disown me if I ever converted to Christianity, and as much as I love and respect my father, I’ve lost faith in what I had been taught from him.

My questions are, how do I begin learning more? Are there any good books on orthodox Christianity for beginners? Does the type (Russian, greek, Romanian, etc) matter?

Thank you!


r/OrthodoxChristianity 4h ago

Does Satan work for God?

0 Upvotes

Think of the temptation of Jesus. The Spirit leads Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan. Satan doesn’t simply happen to encounter Jesus while Jesus is wandering around. The Spirit deliberately leads Jesus into the situation in which the temptation occurs. Moreover, Satan is permitted to take Jesus to other locations in order to tempt him. Willingly or not, Satan ends up doing exactly what God’s plan requires, even though Satan’s own objective is to make Jesus fail.

God is omnipotent.

Satan exists because God permits him to exist.

Satan has powers because God permits him to have those powers. He can roam the Earth, wreak havoc, and tempt people. Why does God permit this? Perhaps temptation itself has a purpose.

God can also terminate Satan’s activities whenever he chooses. Yet he chooses not to.

Taking all this into account, it appears as though Satan operates within a system governed by God. He has a function. He isn’t simply languishing in Hell. He is free to pursue his own objectives, but everything he does appears to follow God’s plans.

Satan may be a rebel, but he is not an independent adversary. He performs a role that God permits him to perform.

God permitted Satan to tempt Jesus because the temptation itself served a purpose. Jesus had to be tested and withstand that test, demonstrating his obedience to God.

God also permitted Judas to betray Jesus and the Romans to torture and execute him. All of this happened in accordance with God’s plans.

If Christians believe that the crucifixion was part of God’s plan for salvation, then Satan, Judas, and the Romans all ended up playing necessary roles in that plan, whether they intended to or not. And they played those roles to perfection. If everything happened exactly as God intended, to what extent can these actors be blamed for making the very choices God’s plan required them to make? And can we even say that they truly had free will if their choices were ultimately constrained by that plan?


r/OrthodoxChristianity 17h ago

Nicea 2 / saintly veneration

9 Upvotes

I’ve been thinking through the whole issue of icons, and honestly I’m not really struggling with the idea of depicting Christ or even religious images in general. The part I’m having trouble understanding is the veneration of Mary and the saints specifically.
I understand the distinction between *latria* and *proskynesis*, and I understand the argument that not every act of bowing or showing honor is necessarily worship. But I’m struggling with where the biblical basis is for actually giving *proskynesis* to departed saints.
For example, Revelation 19:10 and 22:8–9 really stand out to me. John falls down before an angel, and the angel tells him, “You must not do that. I am a fellow servant with you… Worship God.” If *proskynesis* can appropriately be given to a creature as long as it isn’t *latria*, why does the angel reject John’s act rather than simply distinguish between worship and veneration?
I know John of Damascus appeals to Joshua and Daniel as examples of people bowing before angels. But when I look at Joshua 5, I’m not sure that’s actually an angel. The “commander of the LORD’s army” seems potentially to be a divine manifestation, especially given the holy ground language and the parallel with Exodus 3. And in Daniel, it seems like Daniel is falling on his face because he’s overwhelmed and afraid rather than intentionally performing some kind of devotional veneration toward Gabriel.
So I’m wondering how those passages actually establish the practice of venerating saints.
I guess my main question is: where do we see Christians in Scripture intentionally giving religious or devotional *proskynesis* to departed believers? I can find plenty of examples of honoring living people, and obviously Scripture commands us to honor one another. But I don’t see an example of Christians bowing before, kissing, praying toward, or otherwise venerating departed saints.
And I don’t mean that as “there’s no explicit verse saying don’t do it, therefore it must be wrong.” I’m more asking whether Scripture ever gives us a positive example or authorization for that kind of practice.
The other thing I’m struggling with is the Second Commandment. Exodus 20:4–5 uses the *proskyneō* word family when it says not to bow down to images. I understand the response that the commandment is prohibiting idolatrous worship rather than every possible act of bowing. But if the argument is that the distinction between *latria* and *proskynesis* makes veneration of an icon legitimate, how does that actually deal with the fact that the commandment specifically forbids bowing down before images?
Especially with saints, I’m having a harder time seeing how the “honor passes to the prototype” argument works. I can understand it more easily with Christ because Christ is God incarnate. But Mary and the saints are creatures. So if I bow before an icon of Mary, even if I say that the honor ultimately goes to Mary and I’m not worshiping her as God, what biblical principle tells me that this is an appropriate religious act toward a creature?
I’m genuinely trying to understand the argument here rather than just reject it. I feel like I understand the iconophile position on Christ much better than I understand the position on the saints. The saintly veneration part is where I’m still not seeing the biblical connection.


r/OrthodoxChristianity 20h ago

Guest etiquette

9 Upvotes

Hello! I’m a Catholic attending a wedding at an Orthodox Church. I am a woman, so my primary question; should I cover my hair while in the church? Follow up question; any other “general etiquette as a guest” things that myself and my husband should be aware of?

I would ask the couple just don’t want to put any more on their plate, wedding is less than a week away! Thanks in advance for your thoughts :)


r/OrthodoxChristianity 22h ago

Prayer Request Job prayer!

15 Upvotes

Hi guys I put a post up a week ago about prayer for a job interview and they have invited me to a second interview !! Please pray for me that this goes well it would genuinely mean so much , may God bless you all .