A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

"Stannis Baratheon is Robert's true heir," Ned said. "The throne is his by rights. I would welcome his ascent."

Varys tsked. "Cersei will not want to hear that, I promise you. Stannis may win the throne, but only your rotting head will remain to cheer unless you guard that tongue of yours. Sansa begged so sweetly, it would be a shame if you threw it all away. You are being given your life back, if you'll take it. Cersei is no fool. She knows a tame wolf is of more use than a dead one."

"You want me to serve the woman who murdered my king, butchered my men, and crippled my son?" Ned's voice was thick with disbelief.

A Storm of Swords - Jon XI

That startled him. "Why?"

Stannis snorted. "I know Janos Slynt. And I knew Ned Stark as well. Your father was no friend of mine, but only a fool would doubt his honor or his honesty. You have his look." A big man, Stannis Baratheon towered over Jon, but he was so gaunt that he looked ten years older than he was. "I know more than you might think, Jon Snow. I know it was you who found the dragonglass dagger that Randyll Tarly's son used to slay the Other."

"Ghost found it. The blade was wrapped in a ranger's cloak and buried beneath the Fist of the First Men. There were other blades as well . . . spearheads, arrowheads, all dragonglass."

so, we are told this "f she went willingly I would be most surprised, but she had neither the knowledge nor the force of will to turn him."

The strength of will, part is fairly straight forwardd we now that dragons are wilful beast, even Dany struggles with Drogon a great deal and it stands to reason that Balerion being 200 years old, and steeped in blood and history would be a force of will in his own right.

but it is use of the word "knowledge" that interest me, it implies there was something intrinsic about dragon riding Aerea did not know. We know Joffrey makes a similar mistake mounting Syrax without "benefit of whip or saddle."

Did Aerea hop onto his back without a whip? but not all targaryens seem to use a whip, the first time its mentioned in the context of the book was Rhaenys and Meleys.

Or is it something deeper? like she didn't know how to activate the dragon rider mind meld?

His body was so skeletal and his clothes so rotted that at first Bran took him for another corpse, a dead man propped up so long that the roots had grown over him, under him, and through him. What skin the corpse lord showed was white, save for a bloody blotch that crept up his neck onto his cheek. His white hair was fine and thin as root hair and long enough to brush against the earthen floor. Roots coiled around his legs like wooden serpents. One burrowed through his breeches into the desiccated flesh of his thigh, to emerge again from his shoulder. A spray of dark red leaves sprouted from his skull, and grey mushrooms spotted his brow. A little skin remained, stretched across his face, tight and hard as white leather, but even that was fraying, and here and there the brown and yellow bone beneath was poking through.

Examining the map of Westeros, Acorn Hall is located to the east of Wayfarer’s Rest, but Pinkmaiden is almost exactly in the middle of those two castles. So unless the Vances’ territory is a weird shape, I would assume that the Smallwoods owe allegiance to the Vances of Atranta. But we don’t know where Atranta lies, and there are already a bunch of prominent castles (including Riverrun and Stone Hedge) in close proximity to Acorn Hall.

A Dance with Dragons - The Queen's Hand

No, just a boy. Ser Barristan had not forgotten the follies of his own youth. "Speak no ill of the dead. The prince paid a ghastly price for what he did."

"And the other Dornish?" asked Tal Taraq.

"Prisoners, for the nonce." Neither of the Dornishmen had offered any resistance. Archibald Yronwood had been cradling his prince's scorched and smoking body when the Brazen Beasts had found him, as his burned hands could testify. He had used them to beat out the flames that had engulfed Quentyn Martell. Gerris Drinkwater was standing over them with sword in hand, but he had dropped the blade the moment the locusts had appeared. "They share a cell."

A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer

Viserion launched himself from the ceiling, pale leather wings unfolding, spreading wide. The broken chain dangling from his neck swung wildly. His flame lit the pit, pale gold shot through with red and orange, and the stale air exploded in a cloud of hot ash and sulfur as the white wings beat and beat again.

A hand seized Quentyn by the shoulder. The torch spun from his grip to bounce across the floor, then tumbled into the pit, still burning. He found himself face-to-face with a brass ape. Gerris. "Quent, this will not work. They are too wild, they …"

The dragon came down between the Dornishmen and the door with a roar that would have sent a hundred lions running. His head moved side to side as he inspected the intruders—Dornishmen, Windblown, Caggo. Last and longest the beast stared at Pretty Meris, sniffing. The woman, Quentyn realized. He knows that she is female. He is looking for Daenerys.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150473-quentyn-martell-is-alive-death-and-pov-characters/

Currently rereading AGOT, and something stuck out to me about this chapter. I'm wondering if this is a valid line of thinking, or if it's more of a "15 years waiting has me grasping at straws" type of theory.

I wasn't really able to find any previous posts about this theory except for one post on the main subreddit 8 years ago, and it's pretty out there. I believe my thinking will be a little more grounded.

My theory is that there was some external force working to keep Bran alive, and this force also manipulated/influenced/encouraged Catelyn to not leave his side in order to save him from the assassin.

Initial supernatural implication

In AGOT Tyrion I, Tyrion says that Bran seems to do better when the window is open.

“If he wakes,” Cersei repeated. “Is that likely?”

“The gods alone know,” Tyrion told her. “The maester only hopes.” He chewed some more bread. “I would swear that wolf of his is keeping the boy alive. The creature is outside his window day and night, howling. Every time they chase it away, it returns. The maester said they closed the window once, to shut out the noise, and Bran seemed to weaken. When they opened it again, his heart beat stronger.”

The queen shuddered. “There is something unnatural about those animals,” she said. “They are dangerous. I will not have any of them coming south with us.”

The text suggests early on that there is some external force impacting Bran's recovery, and it seems that it is connected to either the northern air, his direwolf Summer, or some combination of both.

In Jon II, we learn that Catelyn has not left Bran's side in close to a fortnight:

Lady Stark was there beside his bed. She had been there, day and night, for close on a fortnight. Not for a moment had she left Bran’s side. She had her meals brought to her there, and chamber pots as well, and a small hard bed to sleep on, though it was said she had scarcely slept at all. She fed him herself, the honey and water and herb mixture that sustained life. Not once did she leave the room. So Jon had stayed away.

He also notes that the window is open when he says goodbye to Bran. Whatever is affecting Bran when the window is open would also be affecting Catelyn, since she has not left the room. More on that later.

Catelyn's Behavior

It is easy to attribute Catelyn's behavior to grief. In fact I don't find it strange that she would want to stay by Bran's side day and night. However, What stands out to me is how drastically her behavior changes after the assassination attempt and after she herself sleeps for a few days after.

The other characters are clearly growing a bit concerned about Catelyn's behavior. A quick note on timeline: when Jon says goodbye to Bran, he says it's been "close on a fortnight", so almost two weeks. We know Jon leaves before Ned and the rest go to King's Landing, because he says goodbye to Arya in the same chapter. Later, in Catelyn III, when Luwin and Robb visit her, it says that it has been 8 days since Ned left. Therefore at this point it has probably been close to 3 weeks (close on a fortnight + 8 days) since Bran's fall.

Robb basically reprimands his mother and informs her that she is neglecting her other duties such as her 3 year old son, Rickon. She feels sympathetic and even wishes to go to Robb to comfort him:

“Mother, I need you too. I’m trying but I can’t . . . I can’t do it all by myself.” His voice broke with sudden emotion, and Catelyn remembered that he was only fourteen. She wanted to get up and go to him, but Bran was still holding her hand and she could not move.

Grief, or perhaps something else, prohibits her from leaving Bran's side.

Robb then opens the window (I'll come back to that), sees the fire, leaves, the assassin comes, Catelyn wasn't "s'posed" to be there, Summer comes in, kills the assassin, and Catelyn begins laughing hysterically.

She then sleeps for four days, and wakes up feeling very different.

When she opened them again, they told her that she had slept four days. Catelyn nodded and sat up in bed. It all seemed like a nightmare to her now, everything since Bran’s fall, a terrible dream of blood and grief, but she had the pain in her hands to remind her that it was real. She felt weak and light-headed, yet strangely resolute, as if a great weight had lifted from her.

After waking, she begins to think more logically, and acknowledges that she was acting a bit irrationally. She also acknowledges that her behavior probably ruined the assassins plan and saved Bran's life.

“He came for Bran,” Catelyn said. “He kept muttering how I wasn’t supposed to be there. He set the library fire thinking I would rush to put it out, taking any guards with me. If I hadn’t been half-mad with grief, it would have worked.”

Now, I'm no psychologist, but I find it interesting that the assassination attempt doesn't make Catelyn even more convinced that she can't leave Bran's side, "half-mad with grief" as she is. If anything, you might expect it to validate her fears. The one time someone actually tries to harm Bran, she's there to stop it precisely because she refuses to leave him.

Instead, it seems to have the opposite effect. Not only is she suddenly willing to leave Bran's room, but in the very same chapter she decides to leave Bran and Winterfell altogether and travel to King's Landing. Wouldn't an attempt on Bran's life reinforce her paranoia and make her even more determined not to leave his side? Instead, she is back to her normal self, extremely decisive and willing to sacrifice for her family. She's suddenly willing to leave Bran alone even though she knows there is now someone out there wanting to kill him, on top of the fact that he still hasn't woken from his coma.

Now back to the window thing... time for tin foil hats.

This is a stretch, but I think you can argue that Catelyn's behavior becomes more irrational over time, and especially while the window is open.

When Jon says goodbye to Bran in Jon II, Catelyn is very cruel. He notes when he enters that the window is open.

“Jon,” she said. He should have kept going, but she had never called him by his name before. He turned to find her looking at his face, as if she were seeing it for the first time. “Yes?” he said. “It should have been you,” she told him. Then she turned back to Bran and began to weep, her whole body shaking with the sobs. Jon had never seen her cry before.

Now, a lot of people take this as representative of all interactions between them, calling it a major flaw in Catelyn's character. We assume that she is always this cruel to Jon. However, while we know that they do not have a great relationship, we can't say for certain whether this is a normal level of cruelty from Catelyn, because it is the only interaction we see between them. It's possible that she is being even more abusive than usual. Jon gives her grace, knowing she is going through an extremely trying time, but it could also be that she is being driven a bit mad by whatever is influencing her through the window.

Now forward to Catelyn III when Robb confronts her.

Outside the tower, a wolf began to howl. Catelyn trembled, just for a second. “Bran’s.” Robb opened the window and let the night air into the stuffy tower room. The howling grew louder. It was a cold and lonely sound, full of melancholy and despair.

“Don’t,” she told him. “Bran needs to stay warm.”

“He needs to hear them sing,” Robb said. Somewhere out in Winterfell, a second wolf began to howl in chorus with the first. Then a third, closer. “Shaggydog and Grey Wind,” Robb said as their voices rose and fell together. “You can tell them apart if you listen close.”

Catelyn was shaking. It was the grief, the cold, the howling of the direwolves. Night after night, the howling and the cold wind and the grey empty castle, on and on they went, never changing, and her boy lying there broken, the sweetest of her children, the gentlest, Bran who loved to laugh and climb and dreamt of knighthood, all gone now, she would never hear him laugh again. Sobbing, she pulled her hand free of his and covered her ears against those terrible howls. “Make them stop!” she cried. “I can’t stand it, make them stop, make them stop, kill them all if you must, just make them stop!”

In this scene, once the window is opened, she begins spiraling.

Now, if the window needs to be open for Bran to recover better, and this same force is affecting Catelyn not to leave his side in order to keep him safe, why would Catelyn seemingly be opposed to it?

Well, that is a valid point that I have thought over, and I think the answer is that Catelyn subconsciously recognizes that she is in a much worse mental state when the window is open. At this point it has been close to three weeks. Without realizing it, maybe she has begun to notice that something is affecting her, causing her to behave more irrationally and erratically, and it has something to do with the window being open.

Also, despite being told that the most dangerous time for Bran has passed, and he will likely survive, she seems to be at her absolute weakest and most fragile emotionally. Perhaps this is due to near three weeks of influence from this outside force fighting against her normal judgement to keep her in that room.

And, once the assassination is thwarted and Bran is saved, how does she feel? As we read earlier, she is completely relieved. She is laughing hysterically, and feels a weight off of her. At this point, the external force has reached its goal. Bran is safe, and it withdraws its influence from Catelyn, and the relief of having it gone outweighs the horror that she has just witnessed and experienced.

After Catelyn wakes up, she feels ashamed at how she has been behaving. She attributes this to grief, which is logical, but she may not recognize that she was also impacted by outside forces.

Who is interested in keeping Bran alive?

Well, the obvious answer seems to be the Three Eyed Crow. He has an interest in Bran and seems to be tied to the magic in the North.

What about Summer?

Summer is ultimately the one that protects Bran, but Catelyn's presence is still necessary. We are specifically told that all the dogs and direwolves are barking because of the fire and the commotion it caused, and Summer was not in the room. Without Catelyn there to delay the assassin, he would've succeeded in killing Bran.

TLDR

I think some external force (probably the three eyed crow) drove Catelyn a bit crazy so that she would not leave Bran's side until the assassination attempt was thwarted. As soon as the assassination attempt is over, she goes back to normal and is suddenly willing to leave Bran and even leave Winterfell, even after her paranoia was seemingly validated.

Clearly something is going on with Bran when the window is open and I don't think George would keep mentioning it if it was inconsequential.

TEC has a reason to need Bran alive.

So, am I on to something or has some external force been driving me crazy these last 15 years waiting for TWOW?

A Game of Thrones - Eddard IV

As the others took their accustomed seats, it struck Eddard Stark forcefully that he did not belong here, in this room, with these men. He remembered what Robert had told him in the crypts below Winterfell. I am surrounded by flatterers and fools, the king had insisted. Ned looked down the council table and wondered which were the flatterers and which the fools. He thought he knew already. "We are but five," he pointed out.

"Lord Stannis took himself to Dragonstone not long after the king went north," Varys said, "and our gallant Ser Barristan no doubt rides beside the king as he makes his way through the city, as befits the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard."

"Perhaps we had best wait for Ser Barristan and the king to join us," Ned suggested.

A Game of Thrones - Eddard VI

"And put coins in many a pocket," Littlefinger added. "Every inn in the city is full, and the whores are walking bowlegged and jingling with each step."

Lord Renly laughed. "We're fortunate my brother Stannis is not with us. Remember the time he proposed to outlaw brothels? The king asked him if perhaps he'd like to outlaw eating, shitting, and breathing while he was at it. If truth be told, I ofttimes wonder how Stannis ever got that ugly daughter of his. He goes to his marriage bed like a man marching to a battlefield, with a grim look in his eyes and a determination to do his duty."

Ned had not joined the laughter. "I wonder about your brother Stannis as well. I wonder when he intends to end his visit to Dragonstone and resume his seat on this council."

The silent sisters had armored Lord Tywin as if to fight some final battle. He wore his finest plate, heavy steel enameled a deep, dark crimson, with gold inlay on his gauntlets, greaves, and breastplate. His rondels were golden sunbursts; a golden lioness crouched upon each shoulder; a maned lion crested the greathelm beside his head. Upon his chest lay a longsword in a gilded scabbard studded with rubies, his hands folded about its hilt in gloves of gilded mail. Even in death his face is noble, she thought, although the mouth . . . The corners of her father's lips curved upward ever so slightly, giving him a look of vague bemusement. That should not be. She blamed Pycelle; he should have told the silent sisters that Lord Tywin Lannister never smiled. The man is as useless as nipples on a breastplate. That half smile made Lord Tywin seem less fearful, somehow. That, and the fact that his eyes were closed. Her father's eyes had always been unsettling; pale green, almost luminous, flecked with gold. His eyes could see inside you, could see how weak and worthless and ugly you were down deep. When he looked at you, you knew.

A Game of Thrones - Bran I

But the man they found bound hand and foot to the holdfast wall awaiting the king's justice was old and scrawny, not much taller than Robb. He had lost both ears and a finger to frostbite, and he dressed all in black, the same as a brother of the Night's Watch, except that his furs were ragged and greasy.

The breath of man and horse mingled, steaming, in the cold morning air as his lord father had the man cut down from the wall and dragged before them. Robb and Jon sat tall and still on their horses, with Bran between them on his pony, trying to seem older than seven, trying to pretend that he'd seen all this before. A faint wind blew through the holdfast gate. Over their heads flapped the banner of the Starks of Winterfell: a grey direwolf racing across an ice-white field.

Bran's father sat solemnly on his horse, long brown hair stirring in the wind. His closely trimmed beard was shot with white, making him look older than his thirty-five years. He had a grim cast to his grey eyes this day, and he seemed not at all the man who would sit before the fire in the evening and talk softly of the age of heroes and the children of the forest. He had taken off Father's face, Bran thought, and donned the face of Lord Stark of Winterfell.

A Game of Thrones - Bran I

A Game of Thrones - Bran I

The breath of man and horse mingled, steaming, in the cold morning air as his lord father had the man cut down from the wall and dragged before them. Robb and Jon sat tall and still on their horses, with Bran between them on his pony, trying to seem older than seven, trying to pretend that he'd seen all this before. A faint wind blew through the holdfast gate. Over their heads flapped the banner of the Starks of Winterfell: a grey direwolf racing across an ice-white field.

Bran's father sat solemnly on his horse, long brown hair stirring in the wind. His closely trimmed beard was shot with white, making him look older than his thirty-five years. He had a grim cast to his grey eyes this day, and he seemed not at all the man who would sit before the fire in the evening and talk softly of the age of heroes and the children of the forest. He had taken off Father's face, Bran thought, and donned the face of Lord Stark of Winterfell.

There were questions asked and answers given there in the chill of morning, but afterward Bran could not recall much of what had been said. Finally his lord father gave a command, and two of his guardsmen dragged the ragged man to the ironwood stump in the center of the square. They forced his head down onto the hard black wood. Lord Eddard Stark dismounted and his ward Theon Greyjoy brought forth the sword. "Ice," that sword was called. It was as wide across as a man's hand, and taller even than Robb. The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.

A Game of Thrones - Bran I

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

Behind him, to right, to left, all around him, the watchers stood patient, faceless, silent, the shifting patterns of their delicate armor making them all but invisible in the wood. Yet they made no move to interfere.

Again and again the swords met, until Will wanted to cover his ears against the strange anguished keening of their clash. Ser Waymar was panting from the effort now, his breath steaming in the moonlight. His blade was white with frost; the Other's danced with pale blue light.

Then Royce's parry came a beat too late. The pale sword bit through the ringmail beneath his arm. The young lord cried out in pain. Blood welled between the rings. It steamed in the cold, and the droplets seemed red as fire where they touched the snow. Ser Waymar's fingers brushed his side. His moleskin glove came away soaked with red.

Throughout fire and blood there is several mentions to dead targaryens being interred on dragonstone, like Visenya, Aegon 1, and Aegon the uncrowned who's body I guess they recovered somehow?

but where are the ashes buried? the starks have their crypts, casterly rock has the hall of heroes. Where would the targaryens of dragonstone go? in the sept maybe

Just what the hell was the moon tea for? I think Renly and Margaery totally did it. I don't think she's a maiden.

But there's no way she's dumb enough to have sex with someone right now AND as the Kettleblacks say she always has someone near.

Presuming Pycelle wasn't lying, what's it for?

Period regulation? Does it help with acne?

Or do we just assume Pycelle was trying to ingratiate himself with Cersei?

So, I was thinking and I realised the trope of a man with two sister wives, with the younger wife being more loved is quite common.

For example Jacob, Leah and Rachel. Obviously there are differences and Jacob, Leah and Rachel are not dragon riding conquerers, but there are similarities with them being the ancestors/patriachs of nation/family.

Jacob like Aegon married the older sister (Visenya, Leah) for tradition and the younger for love (rachel and Rhaenys). In both cases, the younger predeceases the older sister and the husband by a number of years, Rhaenys dies at hellholt, Rachel in childbed.

And again both Rhaenya and Rachel are not reunited with the older sister and husband in death. Leah and Jacob are buried together as Aegon and Viseny's entered together on dragonstone. (interestingly Maegor's ashes are also interred with his parent, the targaryens treat the remains of other targaryens even enemies with respect.) While Rachel was buried else where and Rhaneys' body was probaby crushed beyond recognition when meraxes rolled and writhed about in her dying.

Aegon prefered the sons of Rachel, Joseph and Benjamin due to his love and grief for their mother, As Aegon prefered the son of Rhaenys Aenys. the difference being that Visenya's line dies out, But Leah's lives on.

Another parellel is Adam, Eve and Lilth.

​

I’d like to discuss a place in Westeros that has sparked a lot of curiosity — and quite a few headcanons — in my mind: the Long Lake in the North.

We know that George R. R. Martin deliberately draws inspiration from medieval and Renaissance cultures, as well as their social and political structures, but also from real-world geography, landscapes, and topography.

The North of Westeros is known to be at least a third of the size of the continent. It is also home to much of the surviving megafauna found throughout the continent, as well as giants. And, apparently, it contains a massive body of water that looks enormous on the maps — hence the name Long Lake.

George seems to have drawn heavily from places such as Scotland, Russia, Canada, Alaska, and other similar regions when developing the North's geography and climate.

(By the Old Gods, if Bear Island isn't basically the North's version of Kodiak Island, I might as well change my name)

Taking that into consideration, I’ve always imagined Long Lake as being more comparable to the enormous lakes of Canada — Lake Superior, Lake Huron, Great Bear Lake, etc. — with areas ranging from roughly 30,000 to 80,000 km². That would make it an absolutely enormous body of water, larger than many countries or individual states/provinces of large countries.

And in canon, we have lists of several Northern noble houses whose exact status is unclear — we don't always know whether they are lordly houses or members of the lesser nobility. Interestingly, several of these houses have names that seem to reference lakes, water, or watersheds: House Lake, House Long (?), House Waterman, House Wells, and so on.

If we imagine Long Lake being comparable in size to some of the real-world Great Lakes of Canada or the enormous lakes of Russia, wouldn't it make sense for several noble families to hold lands along its shores — or even on islands* within the lake?

What do you guys think? Does this interpretation seem plausible based on the way George approaches geography and worldbuilding?

*Manitoulin Island (Lake Huron, Canada): 2,766 km²

René-Levasseur Island (Manicouagan Reservoir, Canada): 2,020 km²

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII

"Unless, my lord? There is no seeming to this. Stannis is the heir. Nothing can change that."

"Stannis cannot take the throne without your help. If you're wise, you'll make certain Joffrey succeeds."

Ned gave him a stony stare. "Have you no shred of honor?"

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII

Ned gave him a stony stare. "Have you no shred of honor?"

"Oh, a shred, surely," Littlefinger replied negligently. "Hear me out. Stannis is no friend of yours, nor of mine. Even his brothers can scarcely stomach him. The man is iron, hard and unyielding. He'll give us a new Hand and a new council, for a certainty. No doubt he'll thank you for handing him the crown, but he won't love you for it. And his ascent will mean war. Stannis cannot rest easy on the throne until Cersei and her bastards are dead. Do you think Lord Tywin will sit idly while his daughter's head is measured for a spike? Casterly Rock will rise, and not alone. Robert found it in him to pardon men who served King Aerys, so long as they did him fealty. Stannis is less forgiving. He will not have forgotten the siege of Storm's End, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dare not. Every man who fought beneath the dragon banner or rose with Balon Greyjoy will have good cause to fear. Seat Stannis on the Iron Throne and I promise you, the realm will bleed.

"Now look at the other side of the coin. Joffrey is but twelve, and Robert gave you the regency, my lord. You are the Hand of the King and Protector of the Realm. The power is yours, Lord Stark. All you need do is reach out and take it. Make your peace with the Lannisters. Release the Imp. Wed Joffrey to your Sansa. Wed your younger girl to Prince Tommen, and your heir to Myrcella. It will be four years before Joffrey comes of age. By then he will look to you as a second father, and if not, well … four years is a good long while, my lord. Long enough to dispose of Lord Stannis. Then, should Joffrey prove troublesome, we can reveal his little secret and put Lord Renly on the throne."

AS IT APPEARS I AM TOTALLY OFF BASE HERE WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE OVERARCHING THEME OF THE NOVELS IN ONE SENTENCE OR LESS PLEASE

So, I was rereading Fire and Blood, and I noticed this:

"Dragonstone did have one thing King’s Landing largely lacked: dragons. In the great citadel under the shadow of the Dragonmont, more dragons were being born every time the moon turned, or so it seemed. The eggs that Dreamfyre had laid on Fair Isle had all hatched once on Dragonstone, and Rhaena Targaryen had made certain that her daughter made their acquaintance. “Choose one and make him yours, ” the queen urged the princess, “and one day you will fly. ” There were older dragons in the yards as well, and beyond the walls wild dragons that had escaped the castle made their lairs in hidden caves on the far side of the mountain. Princess Aerea had known Vermithor and Silverwing during her time at court, but she had never been allowed too close to them. Here she could visit with the dragons as often as she liked; the hatchlings, the young drakes, her mother’s Dreamfyre…and greatest of them all, Balerion and Vhagar, huge and ancient and sleepy, but still terrifying when they woke and stirred and spread their wings. In the Red Keep, Aerea had loved her horse, her hounds, and her friends. On Dragonstone, the dragons became her friends…her only friends."

I find it interesting that the dragons seemed chill with Aerea even bad tempered dragons like Vhagar and Balerion became her "friends," dragons in fire and blood seem to be largely intolerant of anyone other than their riders. To me,atleast the words imply they let her play around them

What do you think it meant they wre her friends?

That a theory that I have seen get repeated quite a lot,And it do seem to have some decent forshadowing,But Something I wonder if TWOW ever release and the series continue could a (tragic) romance between Jon and Daenerys work?and is it supposed to even work?

From my personal reading experience they seem more likely to be turned off each other than to be in love with each other let alone marry;

Jon has Val and will be turned off by Dany being a Dothraki,Her current and futur actions in Essos and all the violance,the fire and blood,Her plans to invade Westeros,Her seeking the Iron throne and her seeing the Starks as dogs.

Meanwhile Daenerys is still hung up on Drogo(With Naharis he is only interested in the crown and she feel lonely with him)and will be turned off by Jon being a Stark,him possibly being Rhaegar's son so a threat and rival to her claim as much as FAegon,and Rhaegar and the Kingsguard forsaking her and her family for him(and if he is KITN there will be no benefit in marrying him)

They seem more likely to hate each other and keep each other at arm length if they ally,Than being friendly let alone having a romance.and the biggest problem is that 2 books(if they ever release that is)just dosen't seem enough to develop anything

So since this theory get repeated quite a lot,and the pairing is quite popular I wonder how an interaction/tragic romance between Jon and Daenerys could work and be developed?I know most agree it's will end badly and probably become toxic but how will a romance even happen in the first place

Welcome back to the third entry in a series of posts exploring the institutions of the Seven Kingdoms! Most of my analyses are either about women, marriage, and inheritance, and this is no exception (I'm a political science student, so this is my life). This post about coverture was inspired by this post about the names and titles of married ladies and the weird inconsistencies therein.

But u/WorthDust652, What the Heck is Coverture?

Coverture or Couverture was a legal doctrine applied in Medieval Europe (especially in England) in which a married woman's legal identity, including her titles, property, and legal rights and obligations were subsumed under that of her husband. This meant that any titles and property she held in her own right (through direct inheritance) were assumed by her husband, and she could not sue in court, enter into contracts, or hold any hereditary political office unless her husband acted on her behalf.

Some other terms that will be used in this post are defined as follows. Pay attention, there will be a quiz.

Feme covert (lit. covered woman): A married woman who falls under the legal identity of her husband. Her property is considered her husband's and he must act on her behalf in legal and political matters.

Feme sole (lit. single woman): An adult, usually unmarried woman to whom coverture does not apply. She can own property and act in court on her own behalf.

Fun fact: Although she was married, Margaret Beaufort, the mother of Henry VII, was declared a feme sole when her son took the crown.

Suo jure (lit. in her own right): A designation that a woman holds a title and/or rules in her own right, usually by inheritance.

Example: As the late Queen Elizabeth II was the monarch of the United Kingdom through inheriting it from her father King George VI, she was the queen suo jure (or queen regnant).

Jure uxoris (lit. by right of wife): The right of a husband of a woman who holds a title suo jure (see above) to rule and claim said title.

Example: Phillip II of Spain was King of England jure uxoris since his wife Mary Tudor was the queen regnant (suo jure).

Doctrine of Merger/One Flesh: The religious and legal idea that a married couple become one person or unit.

Alliances and Titles and Heirs, Oh My: Marriage in Westeros

How's the pun? I came up with that instead of doing homework. Anyhoo, marriage amongst nobles is an institution created to strengthen ties between lands and families and perpetuate the ruling upperclass (for more on this, see my post about bastardy). It's ultimately a legal contract in which one party acquires a means by which to have heirs, one party gets the privilege of having their daughter be given the prestige of a married Lady and possibly giving their blood descendants power, while both parties get a mutual alliance and protection.

Let's illustrate this with an example:

Lord Hoster Tully of Riverrun and Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell both want to ally together and fight the Mad King. Lord Stark is young, unmarried, and childless and therefore needs heirs should something happen to him. Lord Tully happens to have a young, beautiful daughter called Lady Catelyn. Since Lord Tully is an ambitious and powerful lord, he really wants Lady Catelyn to be in a position of great prestige in accordance to her high noble station, and he really wants his grandson to eventually succeed his father as Lord of Winterfell. Since both families are now related, they are obligated to fight on each other's behalf.

What does this mean for our happy couple? Well, Lady Catelyn and Lord Stark are now considered to be one flesh, or joined as one. The Faith of the Seven includes a declaration that...

"Here in the sight of gods and men," he said, "I do solemnly proclaim Tyrion of House Lannister and Sansa of House Stark to be man and wife, one flesh, one heart, one soul, now and forever, and cursed be the one who comes between them" (ASOS, Sansa III).

...as does The Lord of Light

Melisandre's eyes shone as bright as the ruby at her throat. "Then come to me and be as one." As she beckoned, a wall of flames roared upward, licking at the snowflakes with hot orange tongues. Alys Karstark took her Magnar by the hand. (ADWD, Jon X).

And even the Old Gods ceremony has a cloaking ceremony like the other religions in which a bride is literally covered by her groom and his house. All of these religions recognize marriages done in the other faiths, so one can assume that the institution of marriage is treated similarly throughout.

Our bride and groom are now one person, and it sure as hell isn't the bride. Lady Catelyn Tully no longer exists as an independent legal entity as long as she is married to Lord Stark, but rather is a feme covert. Catelyn, who was given the courtesy title Lady + Given name (a title that she has by custom, not because she was the official Lady of anything), is now only legally entitled to take on her husband's titles: The Lady of Winterfell and since her husband is the ruling Stark, Lady Stark (She'd take on the Stark name no matter what, but if, say she'd married Ned when Brandon was still alive, she'd be Lady Catelyn Stark, not Lady Stark).

This subsuming of a married woman's identity isn't just apparent in her name and title, but also when it comes to other legal actions. Femes covert typically could not be held liable for her actions, under the assumption that it was under her husband's orders. We can see this when Ned takes responsibility for Catelyn's abduction of Tyrion.

"Pycelle swears it will heal clean," Robert frowned. "I take it you know what Catelyn has done?"
"I do." Ned took a small swallow of wine. "My lady wife is blameless, Your Grace. All she did she did at my command" (AGOT, Eddard X).

Now, Ned is protecting Catelyn, but he does know that a wife is obligated to obey her husband and uses that against Robert.

She had pledged to obey (AGOT, Catelyn II).

Heck, even Tyrion, who does not love Sansa the same way, ends up bearing the blame for what he thinks Sansa did.

I would have, if I'd been her. Yet wherever Sansa was and whatever her part in this might have been, she remained his wife. He had wrapped the cloak of his protection about her shoulders, though he'd had to stand on a fool's back to do it (ASOS, Tyrion IX).

With all this in mind, it seems that married noblewomen in Westeros are automatically femes covert, at least when they are married to a ruling lord. But what about ruling ladies suo jure? They might keep their last names, but...

Suo Jure? Don't Be So Sure!

In the modern day, the husband of a suo jure queen (queen regnant) is not the king, even if the consort of a ruling king is a queen. This is because a king is generally understood to outrank a queen, and it is considered impossible for a suo jure monarch to be outranked.

However, this was not the case in the Middle Ages. Many husbands of medieval suo jure queens, princesses, countesses, duchesses, and ladies often took the "monarchical" title jure uxoris, in a way usurping the rule from their wives. This again was because by marrying, a ruling lady lost her legal identity which meant that her rule, title, and property transferred to her husband.

The Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem had five queens regnant: Melisende, Sibylla, two Isabellas, and Maria. However, when they married, their husbands were crowned as co-monarchs and kings, a privilege that was not accorded to queen consorts. Those kings claimed the throne jure uxoris (and in the case of Sibylla's husband Guy, made a huge ass of himself).

We see this with the one adult confirmed married ruling lady (suo jure) in the main series, Shella Whent. We know she rules suo jure because Harrenhal is described as hers when she is a widow, and therefore a feme sole...

Lady Whent had held the castle as bannerman to House Tully, but she'd used only the lower thirds of two of the five towers, and let the rest go to ruin (ACOK, Arya VII).

...and because Ben Blackthumb, who is sworn to Harrenhal served her father and grandfather, which means that they must have been the ruling Lords of Harrenhal.

He came here as a boy. Smithed for Lady Whent and her father before her and his father before him, and even for Lord Lothston who held Harrenhal before the Whents. Now he smiths for Lord Tywin (ACOK, Arya IX).

However, her late husband Walter is also described as Lord Whent and it is he, not Shella, who hosted the tourney at Harrenhal.

"The tourney Lord Whent staged at Harrenhal beside the Gods Eye, in the year of the false spring. A notable event. Besides the jousting, there was a mêlée in the old style fought between seven teams of knights, as well as archery and axe-throwing, a horse race, a tournament of singers, a mummer show, and many feasts and frolics. Lord Whent was as open handed as he was rich. The lavish purses he proclaimed drew hundreds of challengers. Even your royal father came to Harrenhal, when he had not left the Red Keep for long years. The greatest lords and mightiest champions of the Seven Kingdoms rode in that tourney, and the Prince of Dragonstone bested them all" (ASOS, Daenerys IV).

Walter Whent is also explicitly referred to as the Lord of Harrenhal...

This is known: The tourney was first announced by Walter Whent, Lord of Harrenhal, late in the year 280 AC, not long after a visit from his younger brother, Ser Oswell Whent, a knight of the Kingsguard (AWOIAF, The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring).

...And Harrenhal is explicitly referred to as his seat.

Shortly thereafter, Lord Walter Whent announced plans for a great tourney to be held at his seat at Harrenhal, to celebrate his maiden daughter's nameday. King Aerys II chose this event for the formal investiture of Ser Jaime Lannister as a knight of the Kingsguard...thus setting in motion the events that would end the Mad King's reign and write an end to the long rule of House Targaryen in the Seven Kingdoms (AWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II).

GRRM also has said that Walter's daughter, was also Shella's daughter, confirming that Shella and Walter were married.

Lady Shella Whent was the mother of the "fair maid" at the Harrenhal tournament. Ser Oswell Whent would have been her husband's brother, and therefore uncle to the "fair maid" (So Spake Martin, September 6, 2000).

This is an important distinction because while Walter might have been born a member of House Whent, the title of Lord + Last name, is a title reserved for a ruling lord, as is the title Lord of Harrenhal. If Walter were merely a consort and treated as such, his title would be "Lord Walter." In this case, it is likely that when Lady Whent married, she "whent" (haha, geddit?) from a suo jure ruler and a feme sole to a feme covert whose husband ruled jure uxoris.

On a darker note, coverture was also invoked in cases of straight up forced marriage and usurpation. Marie I, who was suo jure Countess of Boulogne and an abbess (so technically should have been unmarriageable), was kidnapped by Matthew of Alsace and forcibly married. Now, this was seen as an illegitimate marriage, with Pope Alexander eventually annulling the marriage on the basis of non-consent (though not before poor Marie had two daughters). However, even though Matthew's claim was by jure uxoris, he continued being the ruler of Boulogne, not Marie, after the annulment.

This has echoes in the treatment of heiresses of conquered houses in Westeros. The Starks took the Warg Kings' daughters as wives, usurping and replacing their line.

When the Warg King's last redoubt fell, his sons were put to the sword, along with his beasts and greenseers, whilst his daughters were taken as prizes by their conquerors (AWOIAF, The North: The Kings of Winter).

Ramsay Bolton forcibly marries Donella Hornwood, the Lady of the Hornwood before leaving her to starve to death. Although her death should automatically mean that the Hornwood passes to her heirs, Ramsey claims her lands jure uxoris. Ramsay later tries doing this with fArya with the same result.

Ramsay Bolton, Lord of the Hornwood, it read, in a huge, spiky hand (ADWD, Jon VI).

House Durrandon became House Baratheon when their last queen suo jure (and since she was at that time single, a feme sole) was married to Orys Baratheon.

And afterward, to honor the fallen king, he took the arms and words of the Durrandon for his own. The crowned stag became his sigil, Storm's End became his seat, and Lady Argella his wife (AWOIAF, The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest).

Even Ermesande Hayford, an infant, is given to Tyrek to make a new branch of the Lannisters in Hayford (What Tyrek, a horse, thinks of Hayford is a mystery).

Lady Ermesande a babe seated on her wet nurse's lap. The talk was she would soon be wed to one of the queen's cousins, so the Lannisters might claim her lands (ACOK, Sansa I).

Things don't look great even for ruling ladies in Westeros (outside of Dorne) if someone wants to snag your lands. Is it a wonder that many ruling ladies prefer to be as single as long as possible?

One reason Elizabeth I never married was that her sister, Mary's reign was marred by the controversy that resulted when she married a foreign king and the worry that said king would take over England (more on that later). Another way to escape coverture was by being a widow.

Historically, widows were considered femes sole, which meant that they could wield power, own property, and enter legal matters in their own right exempt from coverture. In fact, almost every woman who acts in her own right is, at that point, single (This will be on the quiz).

Lightning Round: All the Single Ladies

• Anya Waynwood, Lady of Ironoaks- Widowed
• Lysa Arryn, Dowager Lady of the Vale and Regent- Widowed (later remarried)
• Arwyn Oakheart- Widowed
• Tanda Stokeworth- Presumably Widowed
• Shella Whent- Widowed (Notably, she is only described as the ruling Lady of Harrenhal during the main series.)
• Rohanne Webber- Widowed
• Maege Mormont- Unmarried
• Jeyne Arryn- Unmarried
• Cersei Lannister- Widowed
• Clarissa Dayne- Unmarried (Usually, a Dornish house wouldn't be included, but since some Stony Dornish houses use Andal succession laws, and House Dayne is a Stony Dornish house, it might apply)

Speaking of places where coverture may not apply, it's time for the Targaryens.

I'm Escaping To The One Place That Hasn't Been Corrupted By Coverture... DRAGONSTONE! (RIP Tim Curry)

Somehow the house that follows the most sexist inheritance law doesn't follow coverture. Go figure (Not really a surprise for reasons you'll see later).

Remember a million years ago in the first section where I mentioned that most married noblewomen take their husband's name and title? Well, the royal family is an exception.

Although most Targaryen queen consorts have the Targaryen name by virtue of also being Targaryens (incest for the wincest), the few unrelated women who marry into the royal family do not take the Targaryen name, but rather keep their maiden names:

• Queen Aemma Arryn
• Lady Rhea Royce
• Lady Laena Velaryon
• Queen Alicent Hightower
• Queen Cersei Lannister
• Queen Selyse Florent

And so on... Similarly, royal women, who are Targaryens by birth, keep their last name even if they take on their husband's title.

• Princess Rhaenys Targaryen stays Princess Rhaenys Targaryen but takes on the title of Lady Velaryon.
• Daella Targaryen never becomes Daella Arryn
• Daenerys Targaryen (sister to Daeron) keeps her maiden name.

Similarly, although the heir to the throne is given the title Prince(ss) of Dragonstone, their spouse is never given the equivalent title to which, under coverture, they'd be entitled.

• Jocelyn Baratheon is always referred to as Lady, never Princess.

 Beloved daughter of Lady Jocelyn Baratheon and Prince Aemon Targaryen, faithful wife to Lord Corlys Velaryon, mother and grandmother, the Queen Who Never Was lived fearlessly, and died amidst blood and fire (The Princess and the Queen).

• Elia Martell is a princess only because she was born a princess of Dorne.
• Even though he married Rhaenyra, even by people who consider her a queen, Daemon is only known as Prince Daemon, never King Daemon.

This has historical precedent as English queen regnants in the modern age were generally considered to be exempt from coverture. This is because under coverture, a queen's husband would take over ruling, and there were concerns raised by queens who married a foreign royal that the kingdom would be reduced to a vassal state.

In fact, when Queen Mary Tudor, the first undisputed queen regnant of England married King Phillip of Spain, Parliament wrote out a very detailed prenuptial agreement that stipulated that Phillip could only be king jure uxoris as long as Mary lived or had an heir. He also could not do any official acts without his wife's permission.

In the case of the Targaryens, the reasoning is that under the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, being a Targaryen is seen as above everyone else. That means that a woman born into another house can marry into the Targaryen family, but she'll never truly be a Targaryen. Similarly, a Targaryen princess automatically outranks any other noble in the realm, so she will not lose her name in favor of an "inferior" rank (compare this to ruling ladies who typically keep their last names, if not anything else).

After several hours of research and typing, there you have it: a detailed analysis of coverture and its applications in Westerosi politics. For more on the Institutions of Ice and Fire, check out the following posts:

• Bastardy and the stigma against it isn't just a personal prejudice; it's an institution
• Not Andal Law, Not Dornish Law, Not Salic Law, but a Secret Fourth Thing: What Were Valyrian Succession Laws Like?

Quiz

What, you thought I was kidding? I never kid. Let's see how much you absorbed while doomscrolling this godforsakenly long post. God, I hope this subreddit has better reading comprehension than Tumblr.

1. What are the exemptions from coverture in Westeros?
   1. Answer: Dornish Houses (that follow absolute primogeniture) and House Targaryen
2. What legal status does a single lady who rules in her own right have?
   1. Answer: Feme sole
3. Lady Rohanne is the sole heir of her father Lord Webber to Coldmoat. What is the term that refers to Lady Rohanne's claim to Coldmoat?
   1. Answer: Suo Jure
4. What is the marital status of Anya Waynwood? Hint: She rules Ironoaks in both name and truth.
   1. Answer: Widowed
5. What happens to the legal status of a lady who rules in her own right when she marries?
   1. Answer: She becomes a feme covert

BONUS: Lord Frey has many sons and many daughters. One of those daughters is named Roslin. Roslin weds Lord Edmure Tully, the Lord of Riverrun. How would one refer to Roslin before and after her bloody wedding?

Answer: Before- Lady Roslin (Frey); After- Lady (Roslin) Tully

… probably ErmesandeHayford. It’s not that she is absurd in the sense of being funny or unrealistic, but rather absurd in terms of the role the 7K society assigns her. She is a baby, not even a year old, yet as the Hayford heir, she is treated exactly like a diplomat and a lady in her own right, thrust into the political chaos of the era and all the high-society trappings that come with it: arranged marriages, representing her Houseto the court, swearing oaths of loyalty... all while her entire world revolves around her milk source, and even amidst all this, she still has the needs and behavior of a baby.Poor little thing... but the best part is how the story and characters really highlight this absurdity while still rolling with it:

Tyrek was the son of his late Uncle Tygett, a boy of thirteen. He had vanished in the riot, not long after wedding the Lady Ermesande, a suckling babe who happened to be the last surviving heir of House Hayford. And likely the first bride in the history of the Seven Kingdoms to be widowed before she was weaned. "I couldn't find him either," confessed Tyrion.

A Storm of Swords - Tyrion I

So she put her hand in his, and he led her to the marriage altar, where the septon waited between the Mother and the Father to join their lives together. She saw Dontos in his fool's motley, looking at her with big round eyes. Ser Balon Swann and Ser Boros Blount were there in Kings-guard white, but not Ser Loras. None of the Tyrells are here, she realized suddenly . But there were other witnesses aplenty; the eunuch Varys, Ser Addam Marbrand, Lord Philip Foote, Ser Bronn, Jalabhar Xho, a dozen others. Lord Gyles was coughing, Lady Ermesande was at the breast...

A Storm of Swords - Sansa III

The lady of the castle was a Lannister by marriage, a plump toddler who had been wed to his cousin Tyrek before she was a year old. Lady Ermesande was duly trotted out for their approval, all trussed up in a little gown of cloth-of-gold, with the green fretty and green pale wavy of House Hayford rendered in tiny beads of jade. But soon enough the girl began to squall, whereupon she was promptly whisked off to bed by her wet nurse.

A Feast for Crows - Jaime III

"Which we're no part of," Ser Roger Hogg said stoutly. "My fealty's owed to House Hayford, and Lady Ermesande bends her little knee at King's Landing, or will when she's old enough to walk.

A Feast for Crows - Jaime III

The strength of this story really lies in taking a minor background character, who is nothing more than a baby, and making her interesting simply through the label attached to her and by highlighting just how broken this society is...

I actually wrote this post in r/asoiaf a few months ago, but I want to repost it here because almost all my ASOIAF related posts are based on institutions, and I like the theme enough that I might make a series of insitution posts.

Catelyn Stark's relationship with Jon Snow is often discussed with the implication that wives have personal prejudices against bastards, which causes them to shun their own husbands' bastards. Additionally, in any discussions about whether Catelyn's dislike and shunning of Jon Snow was in any way comparable to Ned's hostage-ship of Theon seem to center on mistreatment of children as a personal evil versus an institutional evil

Although the aforementioned argument tends to frame Catelyn's dislike of Jon (and other bastards to an extent) as a personal failing as opposed to Ned's custody of Theon as an impersonal, institutional failing, my argument is that the social status of bastards is as much an institution as the taking of hostages, the patriarchal system of Westeros, and the nobility that upholds the feudalistic society of the Seven Kingdoms, and is in fact intrinsically entwined with those institutions.

So, without further ado, let's begin!

What is an institution?

Merriam-Webster defines an institution as "a significant practice, relationship, or organization in a society or culture." In a political science sense, this refers to "formal rules, informal norms, or shared understandings that constrain and prescribe political actors’ interactions with one another. " Institutions can be enforced by state or non-state actors (such as religious authorities, economic entities, or just groups of people) so long as they are acting in a political sense. Examples of institutions include laws, legal systems, political agreements, and behavioral norms.

And before I get angry comments about "defending" institutions, this definition is a morally neutral one. Institutions merely help uphold a certain political system and are only as perfect as the systems they uphold.

Part I: Feudalism

According to Belgian medievalist François Louis Ganshof, feudalism is a legal system in which is defined by classes defined by birth and familial relationships. In the Ganshof definition, the nobility class own and control the land, while vassals are granted the land and the lord's protection in exchange for services, usually of a military or economic variety. At around the same time, Marc Bloch coined the term manoralism, which refers to the relationship between the nobility that own the land and the peasantry or serfs that work the land.

The Seven Kingdoms is a rather textbook example of feudalism, with its rather decentralized government, which allows the nobility to wield a lot of power. This means that the class system is an institution as it prescribes the use of power through the nobility and defines their political, military, and economic relationships with their vassals and the peasantry.

Additionally, since power is wielded by the noble class, there is a strict delineation between classes, with power and class status being maintained through birth and familial relations, which brings us into...

Part II: Marriage

In a feudalistic society, power amongst the nobility is maintained through alliances and blood ties. This is facilitated through marriage, another institution that is very important in Westeros. We can see an example through the STAB alliance during Robert's Rebellion- Hoster Tully, who was the head of the only house to not have a personal grudge against the Targaryens, became bound by blood to the Starks and Arryns, keeping him committed to the cause.

This also demonstrates the status of women as tools to cement these alliances (more on that in a sec). A lord, like Hoster Tully, is much more likely to fight for the Starks and Arryns when his daughters are Lady Stark and Lady Arryn respectively. Conversely, Hoster Tully, who has the power to seal or decline the alliance will only agree to bear the cost of an alliance (which in the case of a rebel group could potentially be great), in exchange for the expectation that his daughters will have the power and prestige that comes with being the wife to a Lord Paramount and that his grandchildren will eventually rule such wide swathes of land.

This contract agreement is also why betrothals are a big deal, with broken engagements leading to rebellions (like Lionel Baratheon's) and massacres (the RW). It's also why although women have more social mobility in this system, it also serves to keep the upperclass, with nobles only marrying nobles (which is another reason Aegon V's son Duncan marrying Jenny of Oldstones was such an insult. Not only is he breaking a contract with one of his father's lieges, but he's bringing a commoner into the noble ranks).

Bastards are seen to threaten this institution since it undermines the aforementioned agreement and class system. If a millkmaid's son can end up ruling his father's lands, then there is no reason for any other noble to agree to marry his daughter to said lord- it's a similar reason why nobles with children are less desirable marriage candidates, with the additional caveat that raising a common-born child to nobility threatens the feudal system that Westerosi society depends on. By sidelining bastards through the stigma of bastardy, the political action of marriage is thus constrained between its parties to only allow for advancement and alliances of the noble class.

This institution is also enforced by the Faith of the Seven both through its stigmatization of bastards (likely to deter their conception, for all the good that does)...

"Everyone knew that bastards were wanton and treacherous by nature, having been born of lust and deceit" (ASOS, Jon VII)

...and their taboos against incest and polygamy (can't make alliances with your own siblings, and having multiple wives muddles succession).

But the bastardy stigma isn't only there to uphold and constrain the status of marriages, it also maintains the status of...

Part III: Women

Westeros is a patriarchal society, where the men generally have power over women. ^{Citation not needed} This also means that wives are subservient to their husbands and are expected to obey them, even if their husbands are brutes, and do not get a say in the decisions their husbands make.

"She had pledged to obey" (AGOT, Catelyn II).

The system of bastardy is at its core a tool of the patriarchy. Husbands can sleep with whoever they want, and sire whatever bastards they want, while wives are expected to remain chaste under fear of disgrace and scandal at best and death at worst. The fact that there is a system of bastardy, with acknowledged bastards being given last names depending on regions shows how pervasive this double standard is.

Additionally, the presence of a bastard is seen as a grave insult and humiliation to a wife, to the point that even during a succession crisis for the Hornwood, there's hesitation to name Lord Hornwood's bastard son heir.

“That would please the Glovers, and perhaps Lord Hornwood’s shade as well, but I do not think Lady Hornwood would love us. The boy is not of her blood” (ACOK, Bran II).

Women do not get a lot of power over what their husbands do. They cannot act against their husbands for humiliating them with infidelity and a public bastard without the threat of abuse of mistreatment, and they cannot leave their husbands without being separated from their children and the ensuing rejection by society. In short, although a modern woman would resent her husband for infidelity, a Westerosi woman cannot. However, she can resent the fruit of her untouchable husband's betrayal- she can resent the bastard. And many Westerosi women do. And although bastardy emphasizes the status of women in the Seven Kingdoms, the stigma against bastards, in a weirdly ironic way, preserves and protects it from being ruined.

Of all the bastards we meet in the books, very few are raised in their father's seat and treated equal to their trueborn siblings:

• Larence Snow, bastard son of Lord Hornwood is raised in Deepwater Motte, not the Hornwood.
• Edric Storm is raised in Storm's End, not the Red Keep.
• Falia Flowers is treated as a servant.
• Ramsey was not brought to the Dreadfort until Domeric was killed.
• Alyn and Addam of Hull were not acknowledged by Corlys Velaryon until his wife Rhaenys was dead.

And this makes sense. Raising a bastard as an equal is a sort of quasi form of legitimization, and thus in addition to insulting a wife by bringing living proof on infidelity into her home, it also insults her by threatening to displace her children. In short, bastardy is a way to protect a woman's honor and (limited) rights by stigmatizing children that are not hers. It also upholds a woman's status as a political tool, thus allowing the exclusive transmission of power between her house and her husband's.

I think it's very interesting that the places within Westeros that don't have the traditional view on bastardy are either extremely progressive for women in comparison (like Dorne or Bear Island) or even more misogynistic than the rest of Westeros (The Iron Islands and the Twins). In the former, this makes sense because women are not subject to the sexual double standard of fidelity and marriage, and thus can give birth to bastards of their own. In the latter, this also makes sense because there is even less respect given to a wife and her honor that bastards can be flaunted without care.

And that's all the examples we have of the bastard/wife relationship. There's absolutely no other relationship between important characters that would be relevant in any way to this analysis. And even if there were, it's so uncontroversial and standard that it's not even worth mentioning.

Yeah, right.

Part IV: The case of Cat and Jon

Hoooly smokes, is this a can of worms.

The relationship between Catelyn and Jon is a culmination of all these institutions rearing their ugly heads, leading to a result that is just as ugly.

Here are Cat's feelings on the subject:

"Many men fathered bastards. Catelyn had grown up with that knowledge. It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man's needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father's castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew. He was welcome to whatever solace he might find between battles. And if his seed quickened, she expected he would see to the child's needs.

He did more than that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence" (AGOT, Catelyn II).

So, in a nutshell, Catelyn's not personally offended that Ned cheated on her. She's offended that in bringing Jon to Winterfell (before her and their trueborn son, I might add) and publicly acknowledging him, he's disgracing her marriage and by extension, humiliating her.

Cat repeats this sentiment later on.

"She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse" (AGOT, Catelyn II).

It's not Jon's fault, but he is the perfect storm of characteristics that undermines Catelyn and her marriage.

1. He's being raised in Winterfell equal to his siblings.
2. Catelyn is forced to be around him.
3. He looks like Ned, which gives him an additional legitimacy because he's unquestionably (in-universe at that point in time) Ned's son, which is an advantage that Cat's own kids don't.
4. and 3) have historically been things that started succession crises and were used as justification for Daemon Blackfyre to usurp his brother.

"Reversing the colors of the traditional Targaryen arms to show a black dragon on a red field, the rebels declared for Princess Daena's bastard son Daemon Blackfyre, First of His Name, proclaiming him the eldest true son of King Aegon IV, and his half brother Daeron the bastard" (AWOIAF, "The Targaryen Kings: Daeron II")

And yes, this is all Ned's fault, but Catelyn is not in a position to be angry at Ned for this because as nice a guy Ned is, he's in a position of power over Catelyn, and he has no problem using his authority as her husband and lord against her.

"The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.

That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. 'Never ask me about Jon,' he said, cold as ice. 'He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady.' She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away" (AGOT, Catelyn II).

This is in context of Ned becoming furious to the point of scaring Catelyn when she asks him the reasonable question whether Ashara Dayne is Jon's mother, which is important because Jon having a highborn mother could afford him more support if he rose up against his siblings (especially since at this point, Catelyn's only son is Robb, which means that if something happened to him, the North, which has never been ruled by a woman, would have to choose between a bastard son or a trueborn daughter). It's also said that this was early in her marriage, so Catelyn does not know Ned enough to know if he would beat or abuse her for displeasing him.

She's also worried that Ned might have loved Jon's mother because he might be more likely to legitimize the son of a woman he loved over a wife he did not, just as Aegon the Unworthy did.

Ultimately, while the treatment of bastards is very unjust and cruel (especially when seeing it through Jon's eyes), it is not a personal failing by the scorned wives that perpetuate this injustice, but rather the very institution of bastardy in conjunction with the feudalistic, patriarchal institution, which sets the victims of this society against each other. Bastardy as an institution constrains the ability of the lower class to mobilize upwards while prescribing the norms of political marriage and women as political objects and tools for power.

So, I find the parrellels between Cersei and Selyse Baratheon fascinating;

Both are married to Baratheons

Cersei is famed for her beauty; in every POV interacting with her someone thinks or comments on her beauty even people who hate her guts; Jon, Ned, Tyrion, Petyr, Varys, Kevan, Sansa, Robert. As well as Jaime of course

Selyse is called ugly by every pov and almost everyone who talks about her; Jon, Val, Petyr, Cressen all talk about how ugly she is.

Also, I wonder if Stannis would get more hate for cheating on her if she was hot.

They are both styled as light of X

Cersei is styled light of the West, "All hail his lady mother, Cersei of House Lannister, Queen Regent, Light of the West, and Protector of the Realm."- GOT Sansa

Selyse is the light of the north, "To King Stannis and his wife, Queen Selyse, Light of the North!"- Said by Axel Florrent in Jon x DWD"

Both are chill with Murder. Cersei with Lady Stokeworth, etc. Selyse with all the night fires.

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II

"Gods will, not for many years," Maester Luwin murmured.

"Maester Luwin, I trust you as I would my own blood. Give my wife your voice in all things great and small. Teach my son the things he needs to know. Winter is coming."

Maester Luwin nodded gravely. Then silence fell, until Catelyn found her courage and asked the question whose answer she most dreaded. "What of the other children?

“
‘If it must be done, I will do it.’

Cersei Lannister regarded him suspiciously. ‘You, Stark? Is this some trick? Why would you do such a thing?’

‘She is of the north. She deserved better than a butcher.’

Ned also informs them to bury Lady at Winterfell. Such beautifully depressing thoughtfulness considering his own tragic execution later.

Renly laughing at Joffrey for naming his sword Lion’s Tooth and getting disarmed by ‘a nine-year old girl the size of a wet rat’ was also such a great introduction to his character. He would have made a great hand of the king to Stannis :(