r/AlternateHistory 6d ago

What-If Wednesdays

5 Upvotes

Welcome to What-If Wednesday, the weekly megathread for scenarios you'd like to talk over but haven't necessarily developed much yet.

Please use this thread instead of posting just a "What-If" question without any lore - those will be removed by the mods. r/HistoryWhatIf is a better option for that kind of post. Thank you!


r/AlternateHistory Jan 20 '25

Althist Help How to make an alternate history Wikipedia article: a tutorial

156 Upvotes

An important warning is, Do not save your sandbox! Only press preview changes. As all content in Wikipedia must be related to the encyclopedic effort, wiki admins might delete your sandbox and undo your hard work at any time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_vandalize_correctly

I am well-known in the alternate history community for creating the imaginary politician Ed Donnell, who is a meme in r/imaginaryelections, as well as some personal controversies. My routine consists of making at least one alternate history post a day, be it a lore writeup or, more commonly, a fake Wikipedia article for my myriad scenarios, all of whom are originally posted to r/GustavosAltUniverses and a handful of Discord servers, and then complied on this and other subreddits.

But today, I will write a tutorial as to how to make a fictional Wikipedia page for alternate history scenarios. Although I use my phone for all of them, I recommend going on a computer for better quality.

If you create a Wikipedia account on desktop, you will have access to a sandbox allowing you to test editing without commiting vandalism, which is a bannable offense. My trick is to copy the Wikipedia article for the event I want to alter, or the military conflict or country templates in the case of a completely fictional event or subplot. Then, you alter the content of the page as you please; this is the beauty of alternate history.

Illustrations wise, you can retain the article's original image, or change it by copying and pasting ones from articles relevant to your scenario (for instance, a picture of Red Army soldiers for an Operation Unthinkable TL). But it has to be a Wikimedia commons image; otherwise, you'll have to photoshop your screenshot using Inkscape or some other image editing software.

You also have the option to change or add text to your article. I always do this for war scenarios, but not always so for election ones. Make sure to proofread them before screenshoting, in order to avoid potentially confusing typos or grammar mistakes. This is pretty much it.


r/AlternateHistory 7h ago

Pre-1700s What if Alexander the Great marched into India?

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115 Upvotes

I have made a small doodle from an alternate timeline where Alexander the Great, instead of dying and stopping his conquests in the Indus Valley after defeating king Porus in the battle of Hydaspes ,he actually marched into India. In my drawing, a Greek Macedonian soldier is facing off against one of the most formidable beasts of the Indian subcontinent : the sloth bear (Melursus ursinus). What do you think?


r/AlternateHistory 3h ago

Post 2000s [HORIZON 2088] Full World Map

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19 Upvotes

HORIZON 2088 is the dark, plausible future of the end of the 21st century. From a weak, temporary Axis victory in 1945 to the final, burning conclusion of known human history in the tri-polar Third Cold War. HORIZON 2088 displays the dark future of the last men who dwell in nihilistic comfort, accentuated with a new technological age of cybernetics and the Internet of things.

FEATURES:

  1. whole world
  2. mars and venus!
  3. 51 things to learn!
  4. country information!
  5. new mini worlda maps!
  6. more lore for the Sino-Australian war
  7. more lore for most things
  8. retconned Atlantis 😔 (no more atlantis) [i may bring it back]
  9. a World Center datalog! (rare to find!)
  10. the NEWS!
  11. some recycled images from my previous VT-BAM 2088 maps

INSPIRED BY
Real Life, Overheaven 2150, Minority Report, War of the Worlds, Cyberpunk 2077, The New Order, The Fire Rises, Flyswatters: A Fresh Coat of Pain, and more


r/AlternateHistory 1h ago

Technology How different would the history of Nintendo’s handhelds be if Nintendo had accepted Bandai’s Offer to release the WonderSwan as its own console?

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r/AlternateHistory 6h ago

Post 2000s The Takeover

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20 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory 5h ago

1900s the 1968 election if Nixon won '60 and '64

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15 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory 9h ago

Post 2000s What if Arun Jaitley survived (and was India's PM)

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24 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory 6h ago

1900s Fall of a Dynasty: The Sino-North Korean War (Nova Aurora timeline)

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11 Upvotes

Context: The Prohibition Party takes power in the United States following a series of state and presidential victories that started in 1892.

Mao Zedong had a shaky relationship with Kim Il-Sung at times.

The tipping point came in 1956, when Kim Il-Sung purged a bunch of pro-China factions in North Korea, prompting Mao Zedong to say that he might use the 400,000 Chinese troops still in North Korea to “help Kim Il-sung correct his mistakes.” 

On October 7, 1956, following a series of meetings with Kim Il-Sung that turned sour, the Chinese government made its decision: Mao Zedong ordered a military deployment of 500,000 combat troops to North Korea with the intention of overthrowing Kim Il-Sung,  a hundred more than he said he would use.

The invasion was launched in coordination with the Soviet Union, which deployed an additional 50,000 combat troops to North Korea to support Mao’s operation.

The invasion, codenamed “Red Harvest”, caught the North Koreans completely off guard, with North Korean forces scrambling to repel the invaders. 

The United States chose not to intervene, with the President at the time, Clovis Wade, saying, “Let the Communists war dogs destroy themselves.”

The joint Soviet-Chinese invasion force was met with stiff resistance not only from North Korean military forces, but from a fanatically hostile population.

According to diaries of various Soviet and Chinese military officers, the North Koreans created armed civil defense units turned militias, known as the Korean Volunteer Brigades (KVBs), who fought alongside the soldiers.

Many were armed with scavenged military weapons,  molotov cocktails, longbows, swords, knives, bamboo or wooden spears, and even clubs and truncheons: they were expected to make do with what they had. According to an unknown North Korean citizen who was interviewed after the invasion, they were ordered to “kill one thousand invaders for every family that was slain by the enemy.”

Fighting was fiercest in Pyongyang, with Kim Il-Sung ordering the citizens to “die with honor”. In a move reminiscent of the Soviet Red Army, orders were given to execute anyone who chose to retreat instead. 

The fighting lasted until around November of 1957, during which Kim Il-Sung was killed during a military standoff with the Chinese and the Soviets. Kim Il-Sung’s son Kim Jong-Il was taken prisoner by the Soviets.

With Kim’s death, the capital city of Pyongyang fell under joint Soviet-Chinese occupation, similar to Berlin post-WW2.

The Kim regime in North Korea was over. 

Image credit:
1. 14 Years of Flames (2026)
2. Call of Duty: Black Ops (2010)
3. Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War (2020)


r/AlternateHistory 45m ago

Pop culture What If Everything Went PERFECT For DC Comics: The Japanese Department of DC Entertainment

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I didn't want the 60s-90s to be drowned out by DC and the growing Japanese market, so I made it a separate part!


r/AlternateHistory 7h ago

1900s Fascist Georgia | Alternate 1940s–1960s in a world where the Democratic Republic of Georgia wasn't annexed by the Soviet Union, became fascist in 1934 and was annexed by the Soviet Union in 1946

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10 Upvotes

Fascist Georgia | 1949 German parliamentary election

The founding of the Federal Republic of Germany was followed by a general election campaign contested primarily by Konrad Adenauer's CDU and Kurt Schumacher's SPD. Smaller parties, such as Franz Blucher's FDP and Max Reimann's KPD, also played a role.

Adenauer campaigned on moderate, non-denominational and Christian democracy, social market economy and integration with the West. He attacked social democracy and the British, especially their dismantling of industry during the occupation.

Schumacher called for a democratic socialist Germany that would nationalize industries and pursue a neutral foreign policy keeping good relations with both the United States and the Soviet Union. He turned the SPD into a big tent left-wing party with a strong emphasis on German patriotism, accused Adenauer of treason, and criticized the Catholic Church.

Blucher ran on a classical liberal platform opposing state intervention in the economy and strongly supporting civil liberties. Reimann, on the other hand, wanted Germany to become a workers' state closely aligned with the Soviet Union; as such, if the KPD won the election, the Cold War would likely happen.

During the first two months of the campaign, the CDU/CSU led in the polls, but as election day approached, the SPD won over many voters who believed Adenauer did not have Germany's best interests at heart. By election day, the Union and SPD were neck and neck, with the SPD leading in major cities while the Union led in the countryside and Bavaria.

On 25 January 1949, the SPD won the election with 205 seats and 36% of the vote versus 180 seats and 32% of the vote for the CDU/CSU, 9% of the vote and 54 seats for the FDP, 38 seats and 6% of the vote for the KPD, 22 seats and 4% of the vote for the monarchist DP, and 15 seats and 2% of the vote for the regionalist BP.

The SPD formed a coalition government with the CDU/CSU and the FDP. This government wrote a new constitution with a strong national presidency. In July, Schumacher was elected President of Germany, defeating Adenauer, Blucher, and several other candidates.

Fascist Georgia | Kurt Schumacher (1895–1962)

On 30 January 1949, the Bundestag convened and elected Schumacher chancellor pending presidential elections. Schumacher's administration was fairly moderate at first because he was in a coalition government with the CDU/CSU and FDP, who opposed his more left-wing proposals

Schumacher's reelection later that year allowed him to bring his democratic socialist agenda into full swing. Upon taking office on 5 August, Schumacher nationalized Germany's major industries, imposed high taxes on the wealthy, and created a Nordic-style welfare state, containing extensive social programs and strong unions as a counterweight to both the state and capital.

As the Cold War did not happen, the United States did not invest significantly in Germany, butterflying away the economic miracle and making the recovery from WWII slower. Schumacher did not bring Germany into the Council of Europe, the European Coal and Steel Community either.

Despite the lukewarm economy, the German welfare state proved to be popular with middle and working class, slowing Schumacher to be reelected by a comfortable margin in 1954. During Schumacher's second term, Germany finally recovered from the war, becoming one of the richest countries in Europe again.

Schumacher kept good relations with both the United States and the Soviet Union, which was not hard to do because, as said before, there was no cold war. But Germany's relations with France and capitalist Poland were tense due to Schumacher's sovereignism and the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe.

By 1959, Schumacher was term limited. Chancellor Erich Ollenhauer was elected President. When in office, Ollenhauer created a trans-European security alliance with most of Europe, and continued Schumacher's economic policies, resulting in considerable growth.

Schumacher died on 19 March 1962 and received a state funeral attended by 3 million people. He was buried in Berlin's main cemetery. Currently, Schumacher is very popular in Germany thanks to his status as the founder of the BRD.

Fascist Georgia | Congo Crisis (1960–1962)

When Katanga succeeded, the United States began supporting Lumumba, because the USSR was still too weakened by the Nazi occupation in WWII to intervene anywhere outside its borders and because Lumumba was fairly ideologically moderate. But Belgium still backed Katanga in order to control its mineral wealth.

With support from European mercenaries and Belgium, Moise Tshombe and Albert Kalonji managed to defeat the initial Congolese offensive, but the war continued as Lumumba and his followers continued to receive American aid. Eventually, in late 1961, the ANC went on the offensive.

By February 1962, South Kasai had been deestablished, allowing the ANC to launch a full-scale offensive into Katanga. The Katangese "gendarmerie" continued to resist, but by that point, they were decisively outmatched by the more numerous and better armed ANC.

On 15 June 1962, Katanga capitulated, unifying all of the Congo under Lumumba. Lumumba transformed the Congo into a neutralist, unitary social democracy combining strong presidential powers with a high degree of civil and political liberties, except for separatism.

Later that year, the Congo nationalized its mines, straining relations with the United States and prompting Mobutu to unsuccessfully attempt a coup against Lumumba. This coup attempt was crushed and the Congo emerged as one of the wealthiest African countries, becoming capable of determining its own affairs.

Now that the United States and the Congo were no longer close allies, Lumumba turned to Mao Zedong's People's Republic of China, which had not done the Great Leap Forward and therefore was stronger and more stable than in real life, for assistance. Mao provided the Congo with large amounts of military and financial aid, turning it into the closest Chinese ally in Africa.

Lumumba also renamed Congolese cities, but he did not rename the country to "Zaire" and European influence remained strong. Another major change was the transformation of Lingala into the Congo's língua franca, helping unify one of the most diverse countries in the world.

In 1976, Lumumba retired and was succeeded as prime minister by Antoine Gizenga, who shifted the Congo to the left because the Soviet Union and China were stronger by then. This led to more proxy wars in southern Africa.


r/AlternateHistory 1d ago

1900s The administrative Division of the GDR and FRG

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759 Upvotes

This is a follow-up post to the scenario where Eastern Germany was allowed to keep the eastern territories and was merged with the Soviet Zone of Austria.

To anyone who wants to point out that this is highly unlikely: I know -I simply wanted to explore an alternate history scenario where the GDR is stronger, and look at how that would impact German reunification and other history. I will keep expanding on the History and try to make it a bit more plausible.


r/AlternateHistory 4h ago

Post 2000s Please read my review of Syria's seven urban rail systems!

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3 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory 6h ago

1900s South African Civil War: What if the Nats said 'No' ?

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5 Upvotes

Hello! This is my first post on r/AlternateHistory. I have a lot more lore on the main post I have linked here and I'm pretty proud of it, I think it's the first one I really want to share. I hope you enjoy it.


r/AlternateHistory 1d ago

Pop culture What If Everything Went PERFECT For DC Comics? Part One: 1940s

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114 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory 1d ago

1900s What if Kim Il Sung got deposed in 1950?

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284 Upvotes

Basically the August faction incident went through in this universe after which DPRK got replaced with the 2nd PRK. The PRK was more like the eastern European countries with the lack of Juche, gradually opening up to South Korea and the West leading to the introduction of a socialist market economy and creation of the SAR's. PRK ended up bidding for and hosting the 1998 Winter Olympics in Rason.


r/AlternateHistory 3h ago

Post 2000s Updated wolfhounds lore

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2 Upvotes

Lore

Founded june 26th 2009 by four surviving ultra nationalist commanders and one tsarist commander

Territory unknown but believed to be in central Africa

Strength 35,000- 50,000

Allies the wolfhounds have no official Allies

Enemy's Russian government and US federal government from their time fighting for separatist state in the last few years of the Civil War 2002-2015

Notable units volkolak not much is known of them besides the name is taken from Russian mythology and that they answer directly to the top commanders

Preobrazhensky life guard regiment which during the Civil War fought in kostroma and arkhangelsk with only 250 men surviving the entire war and would fight there way to nenets autonomous okrugs and would escape on a cargo ship and later joined the wolfhounds to avoid getting hunted into exile by Russian loyalists special forces

Red moon squadron a squadron of five SU-30 multiroal aircraft its unknown were they fought in the Civil War but its believed they fought in magadan in the later years to fend off a loyalists navel infantry invasion though when magadan was fully taken in 06 its unknown were they went next and what they did till early 2013 when they official joined the wolfhounds

Notable wars

Second Russia Civil War 1999-2009

Us Civil War/separatist crisis 2002-2015

French-Spanish War 2023-2024

Okinawa separatist crisis 2027

Italian revolution 2029-2032

Notable personnel

Dušan petrovich while not Russian Dušan would end up fighting in amur but more specifically blagoveshchensk that would suffer a brutal 8 year siege as it was the last loyalists holdout he would join the ultra nationalist as a mercenary but it was mainly to avoid war criminal charges from the Bosnian war

Varvara Dimitrievan/wolfhound 0-3 the only woman in the wolfhounds ranks though most in the wolfhounds have no idea that vervara is a lady due to the fact she only know as wolfhound 0-3 to the rest besides her top lieutenant and other top commanders

Pyotr borisov the top sniper the wolfhounds have to offer with the minority of his work being political assassination jobs or hunting any deserters from the wolfhounds but deserters are rare among their ranks


r/AlternateHistory 9h ago

1700-1900s Puerto Rico: the last member of the Spanish Empire

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7 Upvotes

Hello everyone I am once again back with another post for The House that never stood! I know it's been a while since I posted the last one, but that's because I have been dealing with university and other projects. I'll try to post as soon as I can, but I like to take the proper time with this project of mine. Today we have Puerto Rico! So in this universe, without the intervention of the United States of America, the Puerto Ricans never managed to achieve their independence, and had to settle for simply receiving more autonomy as a result. The little island serves as a strategic base not only for Spain, but also for the League of Free Democracies in this world’s cold war, I hope you all enjoy this map!


r/AlternateHistory 22h ago

Post 2000s What If Vienna Fell To Ottoman Forces? (2026 Map)

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61 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory 1d ago

1900s The Iberian Cold War!(Iberian peninsula after the Second Spanish Revolution)

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r/AlternateHistory 1d ago

1700-1900s The Spear in Africa

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34 Upvotes

The Spanish rule over Portugal was a kind of soft colonialism in its own way, as such unions often are. The country as a whole remained distinctly Portuguese, but in one particular instance the city of Ceuta was the most strongly transformed by Spanish presence. Having received many Spanish migrants, the city had pushed to side with the Spanish during the War of Restoration. Despite their successes, the anti-Spanish alliance that supported Portugal (especially the English) would not allow for total Spanish control of entry and out of the Mediterranean. In recompense, the Portuguese ceded the cities of Hermisende and Olivenza to the Spanish, in exchange for regaining the city of Ceuta, the place where the Portuguese empire had begun and ultimately its final bastion.

Although the Portuguese had now re-established themselves among the nations, their control over Ceuta was still not a guaranteed thing. This was especially true considering the hundreds of Spanish who left the city after the Restoration, leaving the city in a weakened position that it still had not recovered from 20 years later. It was by then that the resurgent Morocco, having re-established itself as a strong and unified polity, turned its eye towards Ceuta. With forces marching into place, the city of Ceuta was placed under siege. The Portuguese were more than able to garrison the city against a Moroccan assault, but it was always strained by the nearest city capable of resupplying forces being Lagos all the way in metropolitan Portugal. Begun in 1694, the siege would go on to be one of the longest in history.

The biggest change that the siege brought was the increasing English (later British) presence in the city. More than just Portugal's interests, Ceuta was also important for ensuring that the British would have access through the Mediterranean, and British ships were a regular feature in the city's harbor. Briefly, the British attempted to seize the city in 1701 after the Portuguese briefly sided with the Bourbon claimants, but later in 1702 Portugal shifted to the Habsburg league and the British returned in peace. The incident still proved that England would need to control a city in the region themselves, something accomplished in 1704 with the capture of Gibraltar. With Gibraltar on one side and Ceuta on the other, the entrance to the Mediterranean Sea could now be effectively throttled by Anglo-Portuguese cooperation.

Morocco's siege still dragged on, but after the Battle of Málaga the British sent forces to break the siege and ensure that it remained in Portuguese hands. Portugal was grateful but the 1700s brought an increasing sense that Ceuta was becoming a British holding in practice if not in fact. That Ceuta had become a core part of Britain's strategy in the Mediterranean underscored this further. Still, the standing alliance between Britain and Portugal meant that this wasn't the worst arrangement. But over time, the evolution of Portugal's overseas colonies and its interests elsewhere in Africa meant that Ceuta had become more and more valuable to Britain than Portugal, although Britain wasn't interested in acquiring the city directly. So it was that Britain was more interested in Portugal's control over the city than its own.

British quasi-control over Ceuta was further underscored with Britain's occupation of the city beginning in 1807 as the royal court of Portugal fled to Brazil. A number of times the Portuguese considered ceding Ceuta to Britain, but Britain's hold of Gibraltar made such a cession unnecessary and would have been too aggressive of a move against Europe. The concern was less to throttle control of the Mediterranean, an action that would have drawn the ire of most of Europe, and to ensure continued access. For this reason the British continued to insist that Portugal maintain hold over Ceuta, and this remained the case after the wars' end. Not that there was no desire in Portugal to hold it; being Portugal's first overseas acquisition, it held an important place in the colonial zeitgeist of Lisbon's empire.

Said empire rapidly faltered in the war's wake, and in 1822 Brazil was lost. With her presence in the Americas now gone, Portugal shifted entirely to a focus on Africa and in this regard Ceuta once more took center stage. After the Civil War, in 1834 Ceuta was fully incorporated into Portugal proper, an action with further drew Morocco's displeasure. It was this, combined with disputes over where exactly the border lay, that triggered the Luso-Moroccan War of 1835. Although the war was ostensibly a protection of Ceuta, it also saw Portugal attempting to expand its presence in the Rif as part of this new Africa-focused colonial policy. Though ambitious, military failures outside Ceuta and the outbreak of the September Revolution, meant that these broader plans never came to fruition.

And really, it was the ongoing chaos in Portugal itself that dictated more of Ceuta's affairs more than anything in Ceuta. By and large, the Portuguese settlers in the city tended to be conservative and heavily in favor of Portuguese authority, if only to ensure the city remained Portuguese and did not return to Moroccan control. That remained the case well through the 19th Century, as all through the coups and counter-coups the city of Ceuta remained vocally in support of whichever conservative faction was attempting to either claim power or retain it. Even as Spain and France both began to make moves against Morocco, Ceuta remained a focal point for the Moroccan government, and drove an almost irreconcilable wedge between Lisbon and Marrakesh.

Portugal's broader ambitions had seen Ceuta gain more land outside the Almina Peninsula, but it never grew beyond that. All the same, the city was steadily developed into a distinctly Portuguese city as it had been for centuries, with modern European-style architecture standing in stark contrast to traditional Berber styles seen outside of it. This also went hand-in-hand with attempting to further separate Ceuta from Morocco both culturally through settlement and, starting from 1863, physically with the construction of a large series of walls that were intended to shield Ceuta from any further assaults. More than that, however, it was also meant to keep migrants from Morocco out. In this regard they were only moderately successful, and by 1880 Moroccans made up nearly 45% of the city's population.

In this way Ceuta was only ever mostly Portuguese, something that frustrated the city's administrators to no end. It was also quietly tolerated by them, as despite the declaration of Ceuta as being only for the Portuguese the Moroccans had quickly become the main labor force in the city and a convenient target for the ire of the Portuguese themselves. A common observation among Portuguese Ceutans was that whenever the government carried out deportations, those affected would just turn around and head back into the city. Many had begun to refer to deportations as viagem diurna, literally "day trip", as a colloquialism for how little effect the deportations actually had. But at the same time no one did much to actually stop them. Indeed, many saw it as a more "civilized" outlet for public anger that might otherwise manifest as lynchings, not that those didn't happen either.

When in 1890 the broader Portuguese ambitions for the Cor-de-Rosa scheme were shot dead by British ultimatum, Ceuta's normal staunch support for monarchy and conservatism suddenly weakened. Although Portugal retained sizeable domains in Mozambique and Angola, the "withdrawal" from Zambesia provoked a harsh reaction from those in Ceuta who saw it as a weakening of Portugal's position in Africa and which was the first step to a complete Portuguese withdrawal, or perhaps ceding the entire empire to another European power. Subsequently the city declared its vocal support for the 31 January 1891 revolt, requiring Portugal to send military forces to secure the city. Even when the monarchy was finally overthrown in 1910, Ceuta's republicanism was driven less by political desires and more out of the desire to remain "Portuguese".

In 1911 as a new constitution was implemented Ceuta was reorganized as being part of the Faro District, despite its distance from Portugal proper, as a final settlement of its hazy political status within Portugal. In spite of now being nominally subject to Faro, Ceuta continued to be largely overseen by Lisbon directly. A consequence of the First Republic's instability more than anything else, Ceuta was still largely governed as a colony even if it was counted as part of Portugal itself, in a similar manner to the Azores and Madeira. Its society was also distinctly colonial, and remained staunchly conservative to the extent that with the outbreak of the 28 May 1926 coup d'état Ceuta was one of the first parts of Portugal to declare its support for the revolt and the creation of the Ditadura Nacional.

Over time as the Ditadura Nacional evolved into the Estado Novo, Ceuta became one of the biggest focuses of the new regime's attempts to promote Portugal as a transcontinental state. Ceuta became something of a showcase for the Salazar Regime, loudly declared to be a place that was evidence of lusocization carried out successfully. This ignored the fact that such efforts had been done through heavy settlement and assimilation, something that could not be as easily carried out in places like Angola or Mozambique that were much larger. In fact it was the widespread and continued use of Arabic in the city that made it a hotbed of espionage during World War II, as despite Portugal's nominal neutrality its Allied sympathies brought countless informants from Vichy-controlled Morocco and Algeria to the city.

The post-WWII world had begun to move strongly towards decolonization, something that Lisbon was not prepared to accept. More and more of Portugal's resources began to be directed towards maintaining its empire. But even in this setting Ceuta was an odd outlier. Despite also being separated from metropolitan Portugal it was the most directly connected of its overseas territories, had the largest Portuguese population, and was the most thoroughly lusocized. Even among the Moroccans in the city, attitudes were split between whether or not the city should join Morocco or move for autonomous status within Portugal. The independence of Morocco in 1955 did nothing to lessen these divisions, especially when Spain also asserted the integrality of Melilla, Ceuta's "sister city".

The situation was further complicated in the wake of Operation Vijay, as many Portuguese who had lived in Goa and related territories left following the Indian takeover. Many settled in Ceuta, where they remained just as opposed to Portuguese decolonization there as in Goa. Morocco meanwhile continued to lay claim to Ceuta, and Portugal continued to claim that Morocco had formally ceded Ceuta in the Treaty of Tetuán all the way back in 1835. This remained a point of dispute even after the resignation and later death of Salazar in 1968, and as the world continued to push on both Spain and Portugal to withdraw from Africa tensions in Ceuta often boiled over into clashes in the street between lusophile and lusophobe factions that were done no favors by the growing tensions in the country overall.

At last the Carnation Revolution brought the Estado Novo to an end, and with Portugal firmly settled on decolonization the status of Ceuta came fully into focus. In comparison to places like Timor-Leste, Angola, Mozambique, and Guinea-Bissau, Ceuta was one region that Portugal still saw the capacity to hold onto. After some debate the Portuguese government agreed to hold a referendum on the city's status, which was protested by the Moroccan government. Held in April of 1975, a boycott by Moroccans resulted in the vote falling 80% in favor of continued Portuguese rule. With a mandate in hand, the Portuguese still went to efforts to reorganize the city's administrative status as a "Special Municipality" of the Faro District, a status which in practice gives Lisbon joint administration of the city alongside Faro.

Since this settlement Portugal has continued to assert that Ceuta is an integral part of its country, and Morocco continues to assert that Ceuta is rightfully Moroccan. Despite a round of discussions in 1996 and 2007 the two governments still have not come to a formal accord and Portugal continues to govern it. In 2015 the city's government organized a festival celebrating 600 years of Portuguese rule, an action decried by the Moroccan government as "the celebration of an unlawful and illegal occupation that has continued for six centuries". Their arguments are not unfounded. Ceuta is very much a focus of colonial history for being its "birthplace" inasmuch as anywhere could be said to hold that distinction and to the extent that it marked the modern European incursions into Africa.

Ceuta is very much a city of two separate worlds, as for all the efforts of lusocization and making the city "Portuguese" it still has a distinctly cosmopolitan character that results from both Portuguese and Moroccan presence. Since the Carnation Revolution the city has greatly relaxed its steadfast embrace of Catholicism and in 2010 recognized Eid al-Adha and Eid al-Fitr as public holidays, presently the only part of Portugal that does so. Although not African, the city is also distinctly not European either, and remains part of the fuzzy boundary that separates "Europe" from Africa even though a legal boundary puts Ceuta, a city in Africa, in the European Union. In other words, Ceuta resembles itself more than anything else in the world, apart from perhaps Melilla.

Really, Melilla and Ceuta both form excellent examples of the uncertainty that emerged from continued European presence in Africa. Although both were settled by separate nations at different times the two cities both have equally strong Iberian and North African influences in all realms, be it cultural, religious, architectural, or culinary. Both cities, claimed by Morocco, are also isolated from Morocco by a large series of walls that put a hard barrier between them and the rest of Africa. And both cities are redoubts of conservatism in their respective countries. Ceuta was notably the last place in Portugal with a public statue commemorating Salazar, and remained in place until January 2025 when it was at last removed despite public protests in the city against "destroying history".

Even now, the city of Ceuta is a complicated topic in the broader scope of Portugal. Not even just its broader relations with Morocco and Africa as a whole, but its own past and its present. Ceuta is either a monument to the colonial past of Portugal or emblematic of a diverse and globalized presence. It is either a city that has been dominated by Portuguese rule for nearly 610 years or a city built up by the Portuguese and chose of its own volition to remain part of Portugal in the era of decolonization. Not that any change to the status of Ceuta would mark some major change in Portugal or the world, but Ceuta is one of those launching-off points where everything from colonialism to racism to questions of sovereignty can be discussed. Such is the lot of a city with a foot in two worlds.


r/AlternateHistory 20h ago

Post 2000s An Egyptian future (Circa 2010)

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10 Upvotes

the gist of it is that the French and the Russians side with the Egyptians in the Egyptian-Ottoman war (1839-1841) in exchange for massive concessions in Anatolia and investment rights and a lease for the Suez port.

that lead to the French later under napoleon III seeing Egypt as the "reconquest" the napoleon I never achieved, but by the 1860's it was apparent to the French that Egypt had industrialized and modernized enough to the point actual conquest for modernization and "civilizing the people" was not needed.

and by the first world war, Egypt would join on the side of the French around early-mid 1915 to liberate the Iraqi/Kurdish from Ottoman rule, and by the advent of the second world war Egypt would've been a power with an economy rivaling that of Italy's.

in 1948 the lease for the Suez would've expired thus granting the Suez canal company to Egyptian hands, and Egypt would nationalize the strait for "post war economic reasons" which angered the British who used the canal under French management to link up their western and eastern colonies, declaring war on February of 49' the "Suez war" would see huge backlash against the British resulting in the USA and the USSR intervening in the affair to stop British colonialism in the 20th century.

by the 90's the threat of the soviet bloc dissipated as the Egyptian kingdom alongside its vassal states in the Mashriq would start co-operating to form the middle eastern security pact (Mespo) with fellow Arab muslin states like Saudi Arabia and Yemen

and by 2010 the Egyptian economy now surpasses countries like Spain and Taiwan, and with that i end my 2 bajilion word essay on alt history that (probably) would get banned for "being ugly"


r/AlternateHistory 1d ago

ASB Sundays Arabia becomes a rainforest in 1258 AD.

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675 Upvotes

After the Sack of Baghdad. An ASB changes Arabia to hinder further expansion. All of the purple areas magically become a rainforest similar to the Amazon. The rest of Arabia is unchanged.

All those desert nomads need to adjust their lifestyle quickly. Either that or move to North Africa. Rainforest should be more habitable than a desert though. And Mongols don't do good in rainforest.

By the 21st Century, Arabia should be home to more people, but finding oil wells is harder.


r/AlternateHistory 22h ago

1700-1900s Małopolska, what if the polish colonised misiones

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5 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory 1d ago

Post 2000s The Wisconsin Reclamation of the Upper Peninsula

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65 Upvotes