Discrimination?

[u/DirectDot6036]

Feels like work is gatekept from me

Hi everyone, I am 22F, 1 year into the workforce and believe that I am subtly being discriminated against. I’d like to get others opinions on my situation though before I jump to that conclusion.

I currently work in construction engineering and am the youngest and only female in a team of 15 men. For the past year, I’ve been asking for work but have been told there’s no work or given nontechnical work such as annotating drawings to “make things look pretty and aesthetic”. If I do get technical work and I screw up, I get berated pretty heavily mostly on the aesthetics of my drawings even if the work is technically correct. I get told things like “your drawings make me want to throw up” or “you need to put more effort into the job” even though I was already trying my best and seniors were too busy to answer my questions. Additionally I found out that my manager has been asking my male coworkers if they believe I am “capable” of doing a task despite them being hired around the same time or a year ahead of me whereas I have never been asked input on whether male coworkers are capable of a task.

Last week there was a team meeting where we talked about work distribution and since I had the lightest workload, the senior vice president told the project manager to put me on a task which is highly technical. However I found out today that the project manager gave the task to the other two male junior engineers who are at the same level as me and I was just told again to “update the tags on the drawings”. This situation confused me because that project manager kept saying how the project needs a lot of help yet he is just not giving work to me.

This whole situation makes me feel like I suck at my job. Even though I admit I have screwed up at times my male coworkers have screwed up too, yet they still get assigned the more technically complex and challenging work. I should also mention that these male coworkers both have “mentors” assigned to them whereas I have no mentor assigned to me because my previous mentor quit. She was also a woman on my team who was given the construction admin work mainly instead of technical.

What do I have to do to get those same opportunities as my male coworkers and earn trust from the project managers? At this point my career is suffering because I am not being given technical work.

[u/bonsaitreesarehappy]

it sounds like the people above you want you to quit because they can't fire you themselves. I'd suggest finding a new work place

[u/and-so-it-goes-]

You’re close to describing the work situation I recently left. I am much happier now at a women owned firm with a woman manager /mentor.

[u/Impossible_Win_5987]

Wtf...

[u/WildClementine]

You are being discriminated against. Your best option is to find another job, that environment is irredeemable. Making mistakes and not knowing anything is normal at this stage, and mostly unavoidable (esp. if the task is subjective, like how plans should look).

If you are stuck at this job for some reason, you need to find female mentors in construction. Join some of the female construction orgs and attend events, even if you have to pay out of pocket and use PTO (but just firms will actually pay for you to go). But really, you're best to leave this firm - both for your mental health and your professional growth. They will hold you back.

[u/Bravo-Buster]

I'm not saying you're being discriminated against, but I would say this isn't going to be the right environment for you to learn, and your experiences are showing that.

I'm also not saying your supervisors are assholes, because I don't know them and I don't know the nuances of why they aren't giving you more technical work / mentoring. But I would say they potentially are.

I will say, it's fully your career, and you have to be an advocate for yourself. Part of that is asking your boss for a monthly or quarterly update/check-in, where you and he/she can talk plainly about your work over the last little bit what additional improvements need to be made, what your career path and being fully completing your current job description, what it'll take for the next level (not for more pay, but because you need some specifics as to what to achieve in order to advance), and then what trainings or learning does the company want/expect for both your current role and the next one. That's a lot to cover, so maybe pick a few of those each time to chat about. Recommend it be a somewhat informal but somewhat structured so everyone stays on topic and it doesn't become a complaint session from either direction.

The goal for the first 5-10 years is to learn as much as you, in breadth and depth, and if you aren't getting that where you currently are, if they aren't willing/wanting to do that, then that's not the right place for you. The better you improve breadth/depth abilities in those years the more higher salaries you'll be able to coand later on when even little percentage increases mean a lot of real dollars, unlike right now where large percentage increases don't really mean a lot in the overall grand scheme.

[u/DirectDot6036 → u/Bravo-Buster]

They can’t give me a reason as to why I’m not getting as much challenging/technical work as my male colleagues other than the fact that I am not yet at the right “technical level”. This is a super vague statement since they have not given me any feedback on my work despite me asking, plus how am I supposed to get opportunities to develop technical skills if I don’t get technical work. Even interns and other new hires have gotten more work than me. The only other explanation I can think of is that I just suck at my job, but I was never given training or formal mentorship as much as my other male colleagues. It seems like a cycle where they get more training/mentorship and more work?

[u/Bravo-Buster → u/DirectDot6036]

Any really good supervisor should be able to give you real feedback on your work, for good and bad. The problem is, really good supervisors are rare, just like really good engineers are rare. Most are average, and they avoid uncomfortable conversations.

This is your career though. If you can't get what you need for professional growth there then you know what you have to do. Talk with them about it; heck, start it off with, "We need to have an uncomfortable conversation. It'll be uncomfortable because I need you to be open and honest in an evaluation, and I need me to be receptive and not take it personally. It'll be hard for both of us but we need to get this out in the open so we can both figure out how to make me a better engineer".

It sounds silly and awkward, I know, but sometimes you e got to manage your manager, and get past the ackward part. Personally, I would respect anyone that came to me in that way.

[u/madi80085]

I felt like that in my first job. Other engineers, even ones that started after me, were taken on field visits while I was never once asked. I'd be given more work filling in reports or printing plans and very little work on the actual plans. I felt like I was being treated like an idiot, given very little engineering work, and then scolded for it. It is much better at my current place where we actually have PEs who are women. We also have people hired specifically to perform secretarial tasks/printing and I get treated like an actual engineer.

I highly encourage you to start looking for work elsewhere and giving them your two weeks as soon as you accept a diffent job offer.

[u/Supercivilcnt]

Leave. You can join a better team.

[u/Significant-Split-24]

Honestly whether it’s discrimination or not it’s toxic and isn’t going to change. I’ve been in the industry for 20 years and have seen it as a whole change for the good for woman, but I’m still one of a few women in the room. I’m just treated like an equal which is refreshing. Feeling like you don’t belong is not normal or ok and you should look for a job elsewhere.

[u/Banana_Milk7248]

Few things of note here.

1. IF (I'm saying IF) your work is objectively poor and you screw up then you shouldn't be expecting to be put on more difficult work until you are consistently performing well amd you should be asking more experienced persons on specific and measurable things you can improve on.

2. The comments you said your colleagues make, if they aren't speaking hyperbole, trying to have a laugh and those are genuinely their opinions then you need to speak to your HR department because thats not construction criticism, thats bullying. If they are having a laugh and you don't like it you need to say so and if they don't stop, its bullying, go to HR.

3. If you don't have a mentor and you're supposed to have one, then you need to make waves on that front.

If you've spoken to your direct supervisors and they are being dismissive or rude then DO NOT be afraid to go over their heads. But if you do, you need to bring receipts and make sure your ass is covered because if you go over their heads and your work is objectively not up to scratch then you will just get pulled apart and it'll make things worse for you.

If your work is good enough and you aren't getting the work and respect you deserve then they don't deserve you, but if you are consistently messing up then just take your time to improve and your improvement will get you were you want to be.

[u/Engineer_Bill]

You should start writing everything down and submit a claim to your local equal employment division if you can't get it resolved internally through HR. It's important for you to know your rights and protect yourself against discrimination. https://www.eeoc.gov/filing-charge-discrimination

[u/J-Colio]

It depends.

I'm working with a couple of young male engineers who have each made mistakes I would describe as lazy if I'm being nice and π|𕧠√π`÷§√{¥✓® if I'm being honest.

Now that they've made such positive impressions on me I'm so much more hesitant to hand them any work other than the simplest CAD I can find. They screwed the pooch every time I asked them to handle the easy tasks, how do you think they'd fare handling the head-scratchers? If I need to complete redo their work from scratch anyway, why waste the budget?

That said, we do still give them opportunities, and I've made it a point to prompt them to ask me more questions, and even I throw out some feeler questions to gauge if they've really understood their tasks before setting them free. They have improved, so gradually they do get more involved tasks. The one who's improved faster clearly gets the more interesting tasks.

Never associate anything to malice that which can be adequately described by incompetence. As I wrote this it wasn't lost on me that my company and I have probably stunted this young man's professional development. If I was a better mentor maybe I'd let him fail more. We're in the business of making money, though. Not every task can be a training module, and we have deadlines.

This might be applicable to you; if you're finishing your tasks efficiently, maybe ask your immediate supervisor for a moment if their time and let them know 1 on 1 that you think you can handle more responsibility than the basic cad tasks. Personally, I'd leave out comparing myself to my peers, as that could come off as petty or worse accusative. "Hey, I feel like I've had a lot of simple tasks recently, but I feel like I can handle more responsibility. We don't need to find something right away, but please keep me in mind if you spot a learning opportunity I could use." Boom 20 seconds and you showed your boss some initiative.

“you need to put more effort into the job”

Done.

[u/DirectDot6036 → u/J-Colio]

I understand what you’re saying but I have done almost everything you’ve said and I’m frustrated. I’ve talked to my boss about wanting more technical/challenging work but he says there is no work which is a lie because there is work but it isn’t being given to me.

Everytime i complete a task I get a “thanks, this looks good”. Even if i ask for feedback, i get vague sentences or “nope this looks good” so it does not make sense that they are suddenly saying that i “lack technical skill”. Whereas my other coworkers get full markups with corrections and comments. I have asked for these markups too but am given markups w no comments and red lines which I fully correct but they are nowhere as detailed as the corrections my other coworkers get. Additionally when I ask questions, I get left on read for a couple hours and don’t get responses until the next day. It just seems like they are more comfortable interacting/training my male colleagues.

I barely get assigned technical work in the first place and when I do, it is super limited. I don’t get opportunities to prove myself and when I do, again, I get told “thanks, this looks good” and vague feedback. So I’m just confused they are saying I’m doing good so why would I not get more work??

I have messaged my supervisor about wanting to discuss the work distribution on our team but he keeps pushing off/cancelling the meeting saying he’s “busy”.

This has been going on for more a year now where I ask for work, have even begged for it, but no one gives me anything.

Also btw my male coworkers have been yelled at and berated too for their work too, yet they are the ones still getting all the opportunities. Also this is not just a one time thing, this has been a consistent pattern for a whole year where they literally get 95% of the technical work and I am organizing files/cleaning up drawings. How can that be explained??

[u/greggery]

It definitely sounds like discrimination on the face of it.

Try and get as much as you can in writing, including specific requests for work and feedback from you if they aren't giving you any. The more you can gather the more backup you'll have to speak to your manager/HR in the short term, or for if you file a grievance or constructive dismissal claim (or whatever your local equivalents are) in the future.

If they're claiming that you aren't up to the job but aren't even attempting to train you to get you to where you need to be, then that's a them issue and you need to raise it often and in writing.

[u/brk_1]

do your things do it faster, and more work and harder work will come to you; look i have knew women engineers who were amazon warriors and were too good at his job even i admire them, but most of them buckled because the pressure of the job; so for not having an trouble with loose of workforce they make you do easier stuff. they are paternalizing you thing wich isnt as bad as they are protecting you....

first you must ask if you really want to have the heavier burden, as some times at the month i wondered why i didn t study accountability because heavier responsability line of work is an grind. if you want the grind you could start to look another workplace.

[u/Terrible-Strategy704]

You are definitely being discriminated. I recomend ti fi d a new job, it doesn't seems like you sre going to grow or learn in that job.

[u/Joel0630]

Well, I think They are just idiots, I met a teacher, with the same problem (they don't think she feets there because is a female when she was younger) so don't take it personally, some people they just need to find something wrong withyou or a defect, I am a male and I find that kind of things, like you look younger, or any kind of bullshit, just envy people, don't worry, just keep going and fuck those guys.

[u/WhovianGirl777]

Find another job asap.

I was just laid off from a job where I had similar treatment, and have yet to have found another job. I was never given any actual engineering work, just drafting and such like you describe and because of that I didn't have enough billable hours to justify keeping me.

Don't let that happen to you.

[u/ShitFlowsDnHillEngr]

Look for a new job now. Period.

[u/la0123456]

Ask the vp to grab coffee or lunch for some advice, don’t throw it out there directly but try to subtly share it.

If you throw out discrimination directly he will switch from the thought of helping you with advice to protecting the company.

He has a vested interest in seeing you succeed. He needs projects completed on time and budget, you billable, and wants low turnover.

Maybe you just need a new manager or be assigned to a different pm as well.

[u/Dwarf_Co]

This suck and unfortunate.

If you can stick with it until you get your PE. You need references. Then move on. If you can’t stand it; you shouldn’t have to , move on.

First few years are always hard.

[u/plasmidlifecrisis → u/Dwarf_Co]

You really think they'll write good references for her?

[u/Dwarf_Co → u/plasmidlifecrisis]

Maybe but also know when I see an engineer with references less than year it could mean trouble.

I would stick it out for at least a year but always be searching. There are good employers and world needs good engineers.

Work towards your PE. That can open a lot of opportunities.

Good luck

[u/Euphoric-Mushroom-19]

Your firm sounds like a shit place to work take that one year with you to a larger firm that values diversity.

[u/WalleyeHunter1]

Do everything as good as you can. Learn everything technical you can. Take the sexist attitude make a ball of your two hands and walk to a garbage can and let it go. Although not the same, I was and am a small man at 5-5 160 pounds. When I was a superintendent at 24 because of my high technical and math skills, trades and subcontractor owners constantly teased and berated me. I worked hard, finished projects on time and everyone made some cash. Eventually I was the one they all wanted to lead projects. Became an estimator 5 years later. I did not invite a single one of the disrespectful trades to bid. It was not revenge, it was building the best team.