A=442?

[u/scopeneglect]

At the Battalion we tune to A=442. I have a relative who marched at Crown and they also tune to A=442. Is this a standard in DCI? I’m also aware that Btal staff marched Legends and Legends staff marched Crown which could explain them sharing the tuning pitch

[u/backflip14]

It works better for ensemble tuning when doing band outside. We also did A = 442 when I marched.

[u/BaltoDRJMPH → u/backflip14]

Still do 442 except Indy I think

[u/LEJ5512]

Back in 95, the last time I taught brass, we calibrated our tuner to the mallet percussion as best as we could. Then we used that calibration for the horns. Depending on the weather, the number varied between maybe 438 (for some reason I’m thinking as low as 436) to at least a max of 446.

Turned out that we never ran out of tubing on the tuning slides. I’m not convinced that the players would have been mentally stuck on 440, either, but by golly they could tell if they were out of tune from the pit.

Later that same season, I saw a similar idea, but more formalized, being used by a Top 6 brass instructor. During Finals warmups, he was walking around with a digital thermometer, twirling the sensor in the air. I asked him, Is that a thermometer? He said “Yup”. I asked, Does it make tuning to the pit easier? He laughed, “Nothing makes tuning to the pit easier!” Then he continued, “Yeah, we have a book written down of what the pit’s tendencies are in different conditions, and then we reference that when we tune the hornline.”

Learned from more people over the years that tuning by temperature (and humidity!) goes back a long ways. When a hornline tunes by notches on the slide — “Baris, go to two and a half” — the underlying principle is very likely to be this same thing.

[u/Lobsterpokemons → u/LEJ5512]

I do remember some times tuning above 442 during brass block since it was so hot outside and the tubas couldn't get to 442 since they were so sharp.

[u/HopalongKnussbaum → u/LEJ5512]

That’s what we had at BAC when I was there - staff had a thermometer and would then tell us “Baris - Kanstuls at 2, DEG at 3” or whatever. For us contras it was always pushed in all the way, because those Dynasty 4V bastards were flat as fuck. One day Mike Roylance took the horns, figured out how much to lop off the main tuning slide, and suddenly we were in tune!

[u/Inside_Tangelo6042]

It is easier to be in tune in high temps outside at 442.

[u/prettysurethatsnotit]

Completely normal. All pitch is inherently relative. Do not be surprised to see a corps even try 444 at one point. It’s something that has been discussed throughout music history

[u/shawmshawm]

There are a few reasons but really it’s because it’s hot so there is no way to get the instruments all the way down. There isn’t enough piping.

Typically percussions instruments are in the back, they are designed to be 442 and with the added distance the sound looses energy and in theory the pitch is “440” by the time in gets to the audience. That positioning is flipped in drum corps. Manufacturers aren’t gonna redesign new perc instruments for drum corps so the brass need to be up to match. I don’t know if that is 100% tested and true with science but it does make sense.

Slotting on the horn is also way better if your tuning slide is where the manufacturer designed it to be. That makes the proportions of all your crooks in the horn correct (ALL of them- the piping between the valves and the pipe going to the bell included. This piping cannot be adjusted with a slide) The same logic can be applied tuning in extreme cold where some directors decide to use 438 as a center. The instruments tend to get more in tune with themselves, and tone and accuracy are much improved.

[u/ProfessorFunktastic → u/shawmshawm]

Being pedantic here for anyone interested in the physics: In theory, actually, the pitch stays the same no matter the distance traveled; that is, no lower-frequency components get introduced to the sound. However, the higher-frequency components attenuate much more rapidly than the lower-frequency ones, so the higher-pitched sounds become less audible (relative to the lower-pitched ones) with distance. Thus the overall impression is one of "lower-pitched" sound, even though there is no actual pitch-shifting going on, just changes in the timbre. How this relates to percussion instrument design and their intended tuning, though, I have no idea.

[u/shawmshawm → u/ProfessorFunktastic]

Yup I personally have never been sold on that but it is a major explanation that is brought up time and time again

[u/LEJ5512 → u/shawmshawm]

I’m trying to understand exactly what (hypothetically) happens when sound loses energy and (hypothetically) the pitch changes.

Fact is, there’s a lot of “broscience” in the world of music.

[u/Evening_Aardvark_246 → u/shawmshawm]

OP, this is a primary source for your specific question.

[u/eagledog]

Keyboards are tuned to 442, so it's just easier to tune the brass to them instead of the other way around

[u/RustyRapeaXe]

In the pit, we used to joke. Oh you want us to tune to different pitch? Let me go get the sawzall....

[u/tdmatchasin]

Gives me memories of high school. Marching band in late Oct (or early Nov) one year for the final outdoor performance of the season.

It was well below freezing (maybe between 10-20 F) so all the winds go like 5 cents flat or something ridiculous like that. On top of that, the mallet perc bars shrink so they go sharp, widening the gap.

There was a fun call/response section in the middle of our show between the winds & pit that was like hearing two different ensembles. Almost past microtonal into just tuning a half-step apart.

[u/aterlumen → u/tdmatchasin]

>so all the winds go like 5 cents flat

Missed a zero, it's about 75 cents flat at 23 degrees vs 68 degrees ambient, a full semitone at 10 degrees. You end up somewhere in between depending on instrument size and amount of playing because you're blowing body temp air and it cools off partway through. At college thanksgiving games it felt like we were closer to a fleet of vuvuzelas than a band sometimes.

[u/Rapidllaman]

Good old 442 back in the days of Southwind.

[u/destiny_duude]

at PC we tuned from 440-442 depending on the weather

[u/onemasterball2027]

Better to tune sharper when you're outside.

[u/probablysum1]

Brass instrument tuning is affected by temperature, and since drum corps rehearse (and sometimes perform) out in the heat, using A 442 can help center the pitch of the hornline better. If you use A 440 in 90 degree heat everyone is going to be sharp and having to pull out or lip down drastically to be in tune, which makes you sound worse. So, if you just change what frequency you tune to then everyone can have their tuning slide in a more normal place and play through the center of the horn. 442 is common, but I've also tuned to 443, 441, and 440. Pretty sure at one point it was cold and we did 439 but I could be misremembering lol. At coats the brass staff had a chart I think that tells you what frequency to use at different temperatures, at least I think they did lol. Either way I'm sure something like that exists online too.

[u/awesomeboxlord]

Usually but it can depend on weather, i remember a few specifically "cold" days cadets did 440 or 438

[u/whodatdan0]

Countless professional orchestras are also going higher than 440. It’s not just a drum corps thing

[u/Bravo11_5point7]

Battalion has tuned to 442 since the beginning.

[u/spicycornchip]

I taught at Ledge for a while and started A442 because we had a mixture of instruments at the time and couldn't all reliably get in tune otherwise. When we all got on instruments by the same manufacturer, we kept it because it was easy. 

[u/jl34538]

440 is only used at best when we were at Indy and San Antonio. Everywhere else, even if the weather was cool enough, we used 442

[u/as0-gamer999]

A = 432 😈

[u/Yourrennid]

Just curious, who is this?