I (28 M) won't go into details, but I credit my therapist with saving my life. In our almost two years of work together, she never once spoke of religion. She simply provided me with a space to be completely authentic, and gave me tools to regulate my emotions. It changed everything.

When I left the church 6 months ago, my family cut me off. My mother told me this would drive a wedge between us. My grandfather told me I was too stupid to be making these decisions on my own. Eventually, my dad called me and told me how stupid he thought I was, and how nobody wanted anything to do with me, and that I wasn't allowed to speak to anyone except with his permission via text on major holidsy (e.g., Christmas and Mothers Day).

So I obliged, but within a week, my parents did a complete 180. They kept calling me, texting me, sending me emails, writing me letters. I had moved to Europe, and they still somehow showed up to my house uninvited and unannounced. It was surreal.

During this visit, they didn't even apologize or talk about the situation. They just acted like nothing had happened. But they'd still pick fights about random shit, tell me what to do, and rebuff any efforts I made to try and make amends. So obviously, I wasn't vibing with all this attention.

Probably half-a-dozen times, I stated in no uncertain terms that we needed space. And even after I told them to back off, they wouldn't! They completely ignored all my boundaries. It was like they were trying to force me to cut them off, so they could pretend they never did it in the first place!

So I blocked them on every social media platform. I changed my phone number. I moved addresses again. But even that wasn't enough! Without knowing any details about my therapist other than her first name, they somehow located her contact information and sent her an extremely long email.

They told her she wasn't even a real therapist and had no right to treat me (she is a licensed therapist, idk wtf they are talking about). They took issue with her approach to my therapy. They blame her for my departure from the church. And they demanded - without my knowledge or consent - that she terminate me as a client.

Now, obviously, my therapist thought this was hilarious and didn't bother responding. When we talked about their email, she said it was the first time in her entire career that she had ever seen the parents of an adult patron try wresting control of their child's mental healthcare from a provider.

But I mean wow. What a Mormon thing to do, am I right? The complete disrespect for boundaries, the egotism, the total lack of self-awareness, the violation of privacy and autonomy, the poingant misunderstanding of mental healthcare policy and even of their own child's needs; I don't even know where to start. The whole thing is just... insane!

Anyways, just a crazy story. Figured I'd share.

This makes no sense. How can they possibly staff the new Ephraim Temple if they are begging for volunteers at the Manti temple nearby? The history of the Ephraim is interesting. Once the LDS church began renovations of the Salt Lake Temple and started tearing out all the gorgeous pioneer artwork and architecture, the world art community got very upset as MantiI was next on the list. The public outcry to preserve the gorgeous artwork in the Manti temple resulted in a revelation that an Ephraim temple should be built. So now we have two temples right next to each other and I can’t imagine the pressure on the stakes to staff both.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2026/09/01/tale-two-lds-temples-ephraim/

I used to think the doctrine of eternal families was the most beautiful part of the church. It stayed like that in my mind until my faith crisis. A change in one's religious beliefs shouldn't be a "crisis," but when your very family is on the line, it absolutely becomes one.

Suddenly, everything changed from being a beautiful doctrine to a mafia threat. It seemed as though the bishop were right there, wielding a club and telling me how awful it would be if something were to happen to my beautiful family, all because I stopped believing the right things or stopped making regular payments to keep that family together.

It doesn't help that the women have been told since they were little girls that they need to grow up and marry a faithful return missionary in the temple in order to have that eternal marriage. Or the men who fantasize about becoming gods and having that righteous woman by their side to help them populate worlds without number. When one of those people no longer believe, the most common solution is to dump the unbeliever and find someone who can be that eternal companion.

I’ve been publicly out of the church for 5+ years now. I was very noticeably shunned by all of my Mormon friends when I left. Completely dropped socially etc.
I literally have had almost zero contact with Mormons since I left.
I just went to a Mormon wedding open house for a friends son who got married out of state. I used to be one of his YM leaders, and my former friend invited me. Which I thought was a nice gesture. Literally everyone who was there was from my former ward. Everyone there was Mormon. Most people were dressed as “professional casual” attire, and even slightly more dressy.
And here’s the part I don’t understand—— there were at least 20 people there who were active, good-standing Mormons, And they were definitely NOT wearing garments. And nobody seemed to be ashamed or think it was a big deal to be out at a very public Mormon gathering, and not wearing Gs.
I mean, that makes me happy to see, but this was definitely not the dogmatic church that I grew up in, and only recently left!
What is happening?

A few days ago I was approached by a pair of LDS missionaries when I was on my way to the bus stop and after a conversation about belief systems and my interest in my family history I agreed to meet with them at their church.

I am not religious but have been curious about christianity for a while now. I find joy hearing about christians who love thy neighbours and don't use their religion as an excuse for hate. After speaking with the missionaries for a while it seemed like their church aligned with those morals.

Here's my question, I am trans and bi, have several piercings, dyed hair, alternative fashion sense (idk if I fall into any subculture), I asked if their church accepted people like me, if my being there looking the way I do would make people uncomfortable. The missionaries assured me that their church accepted all people and that no one would feel uncomfortable because of the way I dress. Is this likely to be true or are they only accepting of people like me so we'll join their church and be "guided to the light" or something. If I am going to join a religion, I do not want to have to change myself to adhere to their rules. Will I actually be accepted there?

I dressed the polycule up as missionaries for our second viewing of the book of mormon musical! I even brought along my childhood book of mormon and bible.

We went out for dinner and a drink beforehand and the looks we got walking into the bar were priceless!

I genuinely had no idea how troubled and disturbing so much of the Church’s history was. The more I learn, the more I’m sitting here thinking, what the actual fuck?

Polygamy, polyandry, abuse, sexual abuse, child abuse, cover-ups, dishonesty, racism, deception, violence, murder of innocent people and lgbtq people being harmed all while the Church preaches integrity, virtue, honesty, and moral righteousness from the pulpit.

The LDS church and its lawyers in their brief for the court stated that a guest, Tommy Johnson, said to John that “he began listening because he believed Mormon Stories was church affiliated.” Then the brief says John says that is a little bit why he named it that.

The guest never said he thought it was church affiliated. That is a lie.

He said he thought it was “stories about Mormons”. To which John replies laughing “that’s not why I named it that…well maybe a little.” It’s exactly why he named it Mormon Stories. That’s why it’s funny. He named it that because it’s stories about Mormons!!!

In these clips from the Mormon Newscast RFM presents the full context of the discussion with Tommy.

He also goes back to the episode Tommy was discussing and plays the introduction to the podcast where he clearly states it’s by the “Open Stories Foundation” and produced by John P. Dehlin. He solicits donations to the Mormon stories website. He makes it very clear who is making the podcast!

There is no confusion it is produced by the church. Just like with many faithful podcasts that aren’t made by the church. Even less confusion than faithful podcasts.

Jasmin says this is about brand confusion and she lies when she says John admits he did it to confuse. The church leaders, their lawyers and Jasmin are liars.

This lawsuit has nothing to do with anyone thinking the Mormon Stories podcasts are from the LDS Church and everything to do with it being critical of the LDS Church.

RFM goes on to say that John’s lawyers should ask for sanctions because of this lie in the filings submitted by the church and its attorneys.

Do you believe anyone has ever been seriously and persistently confused that the Mormon Stories podcast came from the church?

See the full episode of Mormon Newscast here:

https://www.youtube.com/live/jIcX7Jl6pOY

My parents were talking about a new change the church was making and I politely added "oh i think i heard about that on the ex mormon reddit" and did not expect the intense reaction that triggered. 😭 Both of them are fully aware Im no longer a part of the church but they acted like I just personally insulted them. They started hammering me with questions like "What?! your into ex mormon stuff?! Why are you looking at that stuff?!" And I responded with "...because i'm an ex mormon?..." but fhey ignored it and they kept saying things along the lines of "thats like breaking up with someone and talking trash about them" "you're not gonna find anything good about the church on ex mormon stuff" "all they say is lies don't listen to them" I just sat there listening to them and then suddenly was trying not to laugh. I was just thinking "you know what... why am I even surprised" At that point the conversation wasn't even about the new change in the church anymore it was just them trying to convince me that ex mormon stuff is bad. If my comment offended them that's no problem and they are allowed to let me know stuff like that offends them but oh my god... they just completely lost it as soon as i even said the word ex mormon

I have been biting my tongue all week at the excitement about the ticket release to take the tour of the Salt Lake City Temple next year, and finally drafted the message below to help process my feelings. Would welcome anyone's advice on whether this would help or hurt the conversation?

Does anyone else feel the same way?

"Hey kids,

I know everyone is excited about getting tickets to tour the renovated Salt Lake Temple, and I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade or tell you what you should believe. But since this is the family chat, I do want to offer a different perspective from your no-longer-believing father.

I find all of the excitement and hoopla surrounding the renovation surprisingly tone-deaf. At a time when there is so much poverty, hunger, homelessness and suffering in the world, I have a hard time understanding the Christian value in spending enormous amounts of money making an already magnificent building even more magnificent—and then inviting everyone to come admire it.

It bothers me even more knowing the extraordinary wealth the Church has accumulated and remembering that just a few years ago the Church and Ensign Peak were fined $5 million by the SEC over the way the Church’s massive investment holdings were disclosed. Against that backdrop, celebrating the grandeur of the renovated flagship temple just lands very differently for me.

There was a time when I viewed temples as symbols of the growth and progress of the Church. I don’t see them that way anymore. Today, because temples can be announced without significant local membership growth, the grandeur increasingly feels to me like a demonstration of institutional wealth: look what we can build and look what we can afford.

And yes, I can’t help thinking about the Book of Mormon’s warning about the “great and spacious building.” There is something deeply ironic to me about Christians gathering to ooh and ah over an extraordinarily expensive and ornate building while an enormously wealthy church sits on tens of billions of dollars in investments.

I’m not saying any of this to criticize any of you personally for wanting to go. I know you see the temple very differently than I do, and I respect that. I just hope that somewhere alongside the excitement there is room to ask whether this really reflects the priorities Jesus taught—feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, caring for the suffering and using our abundance to lift people who have very little.

For me, that’s why I don’t have any desire to tour it. I would be far more impressed by an announcement about billions being spent relieving suffering than by another tone-deaf announcement about a refurbished great and spacious building.

Love,
Dad

(Pro's and con's much appreciated)

“A former bishop from Layton…Eric Hans Monson has been charged with three counts of sexual exploitation of a minor, a second-degree felony.”
Anyone know this guy? Maybe TSCC should rely on thorough background checks and vetting when calling bishops, instead of going by vibes and last names…

Title: My endorsement is complete, but BYU still won’t let me register

I’ve been an active member my whole life and have genuinely tried to follow the Church’s and BYU’s standards. I moved across the country to attend BYU last year and have worked my way through school the entire time. I also worked for the university in a trusted role that involved interacting with people in leadership. Because of that, I’ve had a meaningful connection to and investment in BYU.

When it came time earlier this year to renew my endorsement, my bishop withdrew it before meeting with me. In the meeting, he was upset that I had not met with him at the beginning of the semester and that I had missed tithing settlement. I understand that ecclesiastical leaders may encourage regular meetings and tithing settlement, but I did not feel that missing those appointments accurately reflected my commitment to the Church or my standing as a member. I was still attending sacrament meeting and second hour nearly every week.

I was not intentionally avoiding my bishop or refusing to participate. I had classes throughout the day and was working my way through school, which made scheduling difficult. I also did not understand that missing those meetings could result in my endorsement being withdrawn or create holds that would prevent me from registering.

During the meeting, my bishop told me that I only came to him when I needed help. We went through the questions, and I truthfully answered yes to them. He said that I had a “sad and dark countenance” when he saw me at church and that he believed it meant I had unresolved sin. He also questioned whether my tithing accurately reflected the income he believed I was receiving. I felt that these comments were judgmental and unrelated to whether I was meeting the actual standards required for an endorsement.

I involved my stake president because I wanted the matter reviewed at a higher ecclesiastical level. I explained what had happened, including the missed meetings and the tithing settlement issue. Rather than receiving meaningful clarification or support, I was warned that continuing to challenge the matter could lead to further disciplinary action. I became concerned that asking questions, appealing a decision, or seeking help could itself be treated as a disciplinary problem.

After my endorsement was withdrawn, I went through the Honor Code Office process. I contacted the office, explained my circumstances, and tried to understand what I needed to do to resolve the situation. They denied me. I appealed their decision because I did not believe the withdrawal accurately reflected my conduct or standing. The appeal process was difficult and frustrating, with weeks passing without updates. I felt like I was expected to defend myself against a decision without receiving a clear explanation of the specific standard I had violated or the evidence supporting the action.

Ultimately, I was dropped from all of my classes. As a result, I also lost my job with the university. Because I had been working my way through school, losing that job created an immediate financial crisis and made it impossible for me to pay rent. It was especially painful because I had worked in a trusted position and had tried to represent the university well. I had invested significant time and effort in the school, and suddenly it felt like none of that mattered.

The uncertainty and pressure filled me with intense anxiety. For days, I could barely eat or sleep. I was constantly worried about losing my education, my job, my housing, and my ability to support myself. I kept replaying every conversation and wondering what I had done wrong, especially because no one could clearly explain what requirement I had violated. I felt trapped and overwhelmed, like my entire future could be changed by a decision I did not understand and had no meaningful way to challenge.

On one hand, I was trying to resolve the issue through the channels BYU and Church leaders had provided. On the other hand, I felt like using those channels could expose me to additional consequences. I did not feel free to advocate for myself without worrying that I would be accused of being rebellious, dishonest, or unwilling to sustain my leaders.
So I moved back home for a while and recently returned. Because of the busyness of the summer, getting married, and everything else going on, I completely blanked on registering for new classes.

I discovered that the original decision had left me with a “Withdrawn CEE” hold and a “CES Wide Standards” hold. From my perspective, the process was especially frustrating because I was not given a clear explanation of what specific requirement I had violated, what I needed to do to resolve the issue, or whether the decision could be meaningfully reviewed. It felt less like a temporary administrative problem and more like a decision that could continue affecting my education indefinitely.

Since then, I have gone through the endorsement process again with my current local leaders. My endorsement was approved at both levels, and the endorsement portal says that it is complete. Despite that, the old holds are still there, and I still cannot register or attend unless the Honor Code Office decides to remove them. I have contacted the office and have yet to hear back.

I genuinely do not understand the point of being approved by my current Church leaders if a decision from a previous leader can continue to follow me. If my current endorsement confirms that I meet the requirements now, I do not understand why the earlier withdrawal still prevents me from enrolling. It feels like my entire education is being held hostage by a process with almost no transparency, especially when the original issue involved missed meetings and a “feeling” rather than a clearly identified Honor Code violation.

This situation has affected far more than my ability to register. I moved across the country to attend BYU, worked throughout school to support myself, lost my university job, went through the Honor Code Office process, appealed the decision, involved my stake president, and then faced warnings about possible further disciplinary action. At every stage, I tried to follow the process and ask for clarification. I still do not have a clear explanation of what I supposedly did wrong or why a new, completed endorsement is not enough to remove the holds.

It also makes the inconsistency at BYU even more frustrating. You see students, especially some athletes, who are technically “endorsed” while appearing to openly disregard the standards, and it often seems like those situations are overlooked because those students bring money and attention to the school. Or it’s a regular student who you know blatantly lies on every endorsement. Meanwhile, another regular student can do everything they are asked to do and still have their education completely derailed. I obviously do not know everyone’s private situation, but it is hard not to feel like the rules are not being applied equally.

Has anyone dealt with these holds after receiving a new endorsement? What ended up happening? Did the Honor Code Office provide a meaningful explanation in writing? Did anyone successfully appeal a “Withdrawn CEE” or “CES Wide Standards” hold? I don’t think I even have the energy to go through all of this again if they put up a fight about it.

I’m just so pissed off at this school, its whole process, and honestly the way this has been handled. I’m getting ready to go back home and transfer to a different school. The price and quality of BYU have not been worth this headache. I also find it strange that, even if I was having personal or spiritual struggles, the response was to pull me from both work and school. I don’t understand how that is supposed to help anyone.

Does anyone remember the myth that those of us who belonged to Gordon B. Hinckley’s generation would be applauded—or that everyone would bow to us—when we reached the spirit world? And wasn’t it after Gordon B. Hinckley died that the new prophet told members to stop repeating it?

The teenager is almost 17, has no full time job (still in high school), and the parents are Mormon but the teen is no longer attending church (stays home on Sundays). I (the uncle) am exmo who left about 20 years ago after serving a mission.

The teenager is trying to assert his independence, but the parents keep boxing him in and restricting his freedom.

Is it illegal, unethical, or abusive for a parent to do this? If the teenager tells the therapist why he can't pay for sessions anymore (the parents are withholding payment in exchange for access to session notes), could the therapist do anything about it?

Spoiler alert: the mother has already tried demanding note-sharing once before but the teen stood his ground. They're restarting therapy again. Let's see how that goes ... 🙄

Story time! Here’s one I’ve wanted to share for quite a while.

As a teenager growing up in NC, i loved week-long summer camps. Scout camp and EFY were the standard two I went to, with a few other weekend camping trips or backpacking trips with just my ward-troop. In retrospect, it should’ve been quite obvious why i wanted to get out of the house for weeks at a time, away from very religious, cultist parents, but that’s another story.

EFY was something I did four times; twice in Buena Vista, Virginia, one at BYU Provo, and one at Boise State. This story comes from Boise State, the summer of 2006, before my senior year of high school.

I got there, made some friends, had a blast, etc etc., as kids are supposed to do. The lessons were as usual, super religious indoctrination, feel the spirit, sing lots of songs, go to dances and dinners and - oh man, the food there was amazing compared to the other years I had gone. This was also the only year i went totally alone, no friends i knew.

One kid in my group was just a bit odd. He loved guitar, classic rock music, kinda that punk scene going on, and he was just fairly quiet, but he was also super kind. He helped out anyone and everyone, always made sure everyone felt included, and just seemed genuine and chill. I remember he was the first one to really say hi to me, and now, 20 years later, I wish i remembered his name.

I dont remember the program exactly, but i believe The evening of the second to last day of EFY was Testimony Meeting, where the groups split up (i wanna say we were houses? Tribes? Idk) but the guys and girls for the group got together in a small room and shared testimonies, sang songs, etc.

This chill kid got up about 3/4 of the way through our testimony time, and started to bear his testimony. He began by saying “I know most people get their testimony of God from the spirit or something, but i gained my testimony of God from the devil.”

He told a story about how he loved rock and roll, guitar, and he brought up Black Sabbath’s ‘Sold my Soul for Rock N Roll’ song, and said that he was in a really low place, really depressed and lonely and felt like giving up, he just wanted friends, and wanted to play music, so the devil offered him a deal - he felt the darkness and evil and power of Satan, and had that feeling of “selling his soul” to live out his dreams. He said he felt a literal darkness holding his soul and he had to call out to God to get it to release him; he said he knew in that moment, he needed God’s help, so he prayed hard and felt peace. He said it changed his direction in life; he came back to church, etc etc, and ended the testimony very positively, about his love of music, using it to process his feelings, and come back to God.

They abruptly ended our lil testimony session early, and sent us back to our dorms. The leaders and counselors were visibly shaken and wouldn’t talk to us; i was one of the oldest in the group, so the EFY counselor kinda confided in me, “wow. That was bad. That was so wrong.” But still wouldn’t answer my questions when i asked why?? What was so bad about it?

To this day, i figured it was a kid sharing his story about the lowest point, his conversion, and i felt nothing bad. All i wanted was… idk, keep going thru EFY? I saw nothing wrong with it and actually appreciated the story. I wanted to tell that to this kid, too, but we got back to the dorms and he wasn’t there.

The next morning, my group only, was called to go to a special meeting instead of going to some other session speaker. We met in a small classroom with the session leader, his wife, and 4 or 5 other adult males at the front of the room. They told us that there was a troublesome matter that needed resolving, that the emotions and feelings we were having, the absence of the spirit was palpable, and they’d felt it, too. At this point i was even more confused. Nothing felt off. There was no disturbance in the force??

The session leader told us that testimonies can and will ONLY ever come from God; he told us the devil cannot physically attack us, and there’s no way to gain a testimony from the devil. He went off about how testimonies are formed and then offered this really long prayer on our behalf, but not the boy, who was now NOT at EFY anymore??? No one acknowledged why we were actually there, nor did anyone mention the kid or his testimony. We just magically, suddenly, needed to get a special lecture and blessing about testimonies and where they come from.

After we left the special session, the counselors with my group told us they felt so much lighter, physically better, that they had felt so dark all night, but now felt free and light and calm. I asked why, i asked questions about the kid, i asked for more info on the story and what was so bad about it, and no one would answer me. I remember worrying that i was evil, dark, or broken for not feeling anything at the time, and just being sad for this kid they obviously sent home, but wouldn’t say they did.

I felt worse after the special meeting than i had during or after the testimony meeting.

Someone here posted about the “devil cannot physically attack us” the other day, and it reminded me of this story. No real point, just felt like sharing another moment of cultist conformity, religious gaslighting, and the church wielding unanswerable questions, and unquestionable answers to silence the fact it’s all bullshit, and if your lived experiences of their constructed space don’t match their narrative, you are silenced. .

First things first, this story is NOT about me. I need some advice on how to help a relative. I’ll call her Hannah. I believe her situation is not uncommon for Mormon women. I would love to know if anyone in this sub has been through something similar, and if so, what you did to get through it.

Once upon a time, when Hannah was a senior in high school, her boyfriend (I’ll call him Michael) got her pregnant. Michael had graduated the year before and was hanging around his hometown and living with his parents. Both Hannah and Michael are Mormon (to this day), and both come from very active, traditional, conservative Mormon families. Hannah’s parents encouraged/pressured her to keep the baby and marry Michael right after she graduated high school. I think she felt it was her only choice. On the day of her wedding, Hannah confessed to a family member through tears that she did not want to marry Michael. But she still went through with it because she was pregnant, her parents were pressuring her, and she felt she had no choice.

They lived with Hannah’s parents after their baby was born. During that time, she became a dental hygienist and Michael went to community college. But then she got pregnant. Again. She had to stop working as a dental hygienist to stay home with their now two children. Then they moved to Rexburg, where Michael got a bachelor’s degree in economics from BYU Idaho.

After graduating from BYUI, Michael got a job and they moved back to the state they are from. It’s an expensive area, so they lived in a mobile home. Then she got pregnant again. They moved into a relative’s house because the mobile home was too small for them and their now 3 kids. Then she got pregnant AGAIN. This time: SURPRISE! It’s twins. So now they have 5 kids.

Then the family whose house they are living in decides to sell the house. They have nowhere to live because Michael’s job doesn’t pay enough to rent or buy a house big enough for themselves and their 5 kids. They literally got priced out of the whole state. They have to move across the country to find somewhere affordable enough for their family to live. Now Hannah lives far away from her parents, who have been her only source of emotional support and free childcare.

Fast forward to the present. Hannah and Michael’s oldest child is middle-school aged, and the youngest (twins) are kindergarten aged. Hannah is homeschooling all of them. She has always homeschooled all of them. She doesn’t believe they will do well in public school, and fears they’ll be bullied.

Being a stay-at-home parent and homeschooling 5 kids is hard enough. But I haven’t even talked about Michael yet.

Michael is essentially another child for Hannah to care for. For context, he does have ADHD. I personally don’t think that’s an excuse for all of this — I also have ADHD— but I’ll let you guys be the judge. Hannah has to remind her grown husband, Michael, to brush his teeth and take showers. She has to wake him up for work every morning, even though he works from home. Waking him up for work is not easy. Why? Because he stays up until the wee hours of the morning, every night, doing who knows what. Maybe video games? Maybe worse? No one knows. I don’t even think she knows. I don’t know if she asks. He gives her the excuse that his ADHD is SO bad that he can’t get all of his work done in a normal 8-hour work day. So he “works” for up to 12 hours or more every day, but a lot of that is him taking breaks by going on his phone or playing video games. He isn’t taking breaks to help with the kids, which I know because whenever I visit during the week he doesn’t leave his office all day. He doesn’t do any household chores. The only effort he makes is telling his kids to help their mom, while he sits on the couch on his phone. When Hannah’s parents come to visit, he puts on a performance of cleaning up after dinner, taking out the trash, etc. So he is capable, and he knows he should be helping. But he only does it when his in-laws are around to see. He doesn’t do any of the cooking, laundry, or meal planning. If Hannah asks him to run an errand, he is gone for way too long and she doesn’t know where he’s been. She takes all of the kids to their activities, cooks, cleans, mows the lawn, homeschools, and takes care of the kids. The only thing he does is work, which is important, but it’s not enough. Also, he has never been a high performer at his work, and he has had poor performance reviews. His jobs have never been very secure and Hannah is always afraid he will lose his job. I think she doesn’t want to put more on his plate because she thinks if she does, his work performance will suffer and he will lose his job.

On top of all that, Hannah recently found out that they are in tons of debt. I don’t remember the exact number, but I think it is around $30,000. And he kept it a secret and never told her. She found out somehow, confronted him about it, and he was nonchalant. He didn’t seem to think it was a big deal.

After finding out about the debt, she began eating less so her kids would have more food. To avoid grocery shopping, she used up all the food that they had in their freezers and pantry (which her parents had bought for them on a recent visit). She began donating plasma.

What did Michael change? Nothing. He doesn’t want to donate plasma. He doesn’t want to try to get a higher paying job. He doesn’t seem to care about paying off the debt.

Michael isn’t an angry person. He’s not abusive. But he is apathetic, and it seems like he’s very lazy. Hannah expresses her frustrations to him, but it’s like talking to a wall. He’s not a good listener, and immediately forgets/disregards what she tells him. If she wants him to do something, she has to constantly remind him. It definitely seems like weaponized incompetence on his part, but I don’t know what goes on in his mind. He’s not a considerate, caring, or loving husband. Hannah doesn’t even like Michael anymore, let alone love him. Remember, she never really wanted to marry him in the first place, but she was pretty much forced into it. And at this point, many years and 5 kids later, he seems more like another kid she has to take care of than her husband and life partner.

The Mormonism of it all:

Teenage Hannah and Michael wouldn’t have gotten into this situation if they had had real sex education and were taught to use protection. Hannah wouldn’t be in this situation if her Mormon parents hadn’t pressured her into having a baby and marrying Michael. Hannah and Michael wouldn’t be in this situation if they had been practical about family planning and did a better at using birth control (to be fair, some of their kids could have been planned, but they always had their next kid when they could barely take care of the kids they already had). Hannah wouldn’t be in this situation if she had been encouraged to have a career instead of having kids. And Michael might not be such a bad partner if he hadn’t been taught that the dad’s job is to “provide” and that’s it. Hannah seems to be embarrassed to talk to family members openly about what she is going through, even though she is completely overwhelmed, anxious, and depressed. I think part of the reason she doesn’t open up is the Mormon pressure to look like you always have everything together and not complain about your “duties” as a wife and mother. I don’t know if they pay tithing or receive fast offerings. It could be that they don’t “qualify” for fast offerings because Michael’s job pays “enough”.

I know that these problems (forced to marry/have a baby, having more kids than you can afford, etc.) are not uncommon in Mormonism. Has anyone here ever been through something similar? Does anyone have any advice I could pass on? Or advice for me on how I could support her?

If you read this story, THANK YOU. Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated.

TLDR: Family member forced to marry boyfriend who got her pregnant, 5 kids later she is an overworked stay-at-home mom whose husband doesn’t help at all, and they are in a lot of debt.

I’m not going to sit here and blame all of this on growing up mormon, but I feel like it’s gotta be at least part of it. I basically grew up as a teenager feeling constant shame for jerking off and watching porn and had to lie about it to the bishop and my dad countless times. I feel like it might have given me a weird relationship with sexual stuff at a young age.

I know the other part of it is just me being too scared because I know there have been multiple times where I could have but I didn’t. I think I’m actually a pretty decent looking guy so I think it’s really just me holding myself back.

Anyway sorry for the ramble I was just wondering if there’s anyone else here who is a “late bloomer”

Having left the Mormon church feels like mothering without a nap or guidebook. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm an actual failure as a parent. (I'm not looking for mom reassurance, I'm just sharing the context for this post.)

Then I hear my kid casually say things like, "Oh, yes, they are. Hey Mom, I am glad now that I understand nonbinary people so I use the correct gender for them."

And I know this isn't an accident or happenstance, because I'm the one who taught my kid about nonbinary people when he had a daycare teacher who is nonbinary. He kept misgendering them, and it took several pretty serious conversations for him to get up to speed.

Or when tells me, "I tell people my mom's a lesbian because that's what you are" like. it. ain't. no. thing. Because it's just normal to him, because it is.

I'm not a perfect mother, but my kid is having love, acceptance, and a healthy and nuanced understanding of gender and sexuality modeled for him. He's never been taught to hate his body. He knows no matter who or how he loves, I will love him and be here for him.

And if that's failing, then please by all means, I will keep failing spectacularly.

Approach the pulpit with wide eyes, make sure everyone sees you, and claim you are the messiah. “I…am the Messiah! There are those who will doubt-”

True story. my first councilor grabbed me before I could say anything else.

Just a reminder that the Mormon cult believes it is their religious right to protect pedophiles instead of helping children who are being abused. That's how they won their recent case in Arizona.

I know it’s not easy work that they’re doing. I’m not interested and I don’t want to hurt feelings

My husband is TBM and I’m… probably not fully PIMO but I am still active while seeing all the flaws in the church and not being afraid to make critiques where I feel appropriate. So I usually call myself PIMO on here because it makes the most sense.

Anyway- I’m genuinely concerned because my husband got upset yesterday about me reading John Turner’s book about Brigham Young. I just want to read scholarly info about these people. He thinks it’s anti because John Turner is evangelical himself… but he never checks the source on any of his other readings. A quick Google search is good enough for him to learn information about Cleopatra or the Basque people. The said, when it comes to church history- source matters. I would argue source always matters and that is why I’m reading John Turner’s stuff because he’s very well informed and well researched. And I enjoy the Mormon stories commentary of course.

Anybody have some good lds books on Brigham that give an unbiased view of him? I just want to barf thinking about how I can pick up a book on literally any other topic and my spouse wouldn’t bring this up, but with the church he’s ready to fight.