Toyota 86 2017 Turbo – Misfire/Cutting Under WOT – I’ve Checked Almost Everything
I’m looking for help with an issue I’ve been chasing for months. I’m going to include the full history because I’ve already replaced, tested, or inspected a huge amount of things, and I’m trying to avoid throwing more random parts at the car.
CAR / SETUP
2017 Toyota 86
Automatic A960E 6-speed transmission
FA20 engine
Forged engine with CP-Carrillo components
Garrett turbo, approximately 55 mm
External wastegate, approximately 38 mm
Front-mount intercooler
Full intercooler piping
BOV
Downpipe/exhaust
Engine oil cooler
Transmission cooler with fan
EcuTek
93 octane currently
Previously ran E85/E60-E85
Current boost has been as high as approximately 21 psi
At an earlier stage of the turbo setup, the car made approximately 255 WHP / 211 WTQ at around 8 psi on 93.
The problem existed long before I started running 21 psi.
THE PROBLEM
The car develops a hard hesitation / cutting / misfire-like feeling under WOT and high load.
This is VERY important:
It is NOT only a 4th-gear problem.
It has happened in almost every gear at different points.
1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.
Sometimes one gear behaves better than another depending on the setup or changes I have made, and 4th can make the problem easier to reproduce because the engine stays under load longer, but the problem itself is load/boost related, not exclusively gear related.
When it happens, the car starts jerking/cutting and stops pulling correctly.
Sometimes the Check Engine light flashes, like the ECU is detecting misfire.
I remember the problem clearly happening around 10 psi near 6,000–6,500 RPM, but it has also happened at lower and higher boost levels.
It has happened on both 93 octane and E85.
IGNITION SYSTEM
I have already replaced the ignition coils with new OEM coils.
I have tried multiple spark plugs.
I’m using colder plugs similar to the WRX application, correct M12 size for the FA20.
I have tried several plug gaps:
.024”
.020”
.018”
.016”
I went as tight as .016” trying to eliminate spark blowout under boost.
At one point I found two spark plugs on the passenger side slightly loose. That was corrected and all plugs were properly installed.
The problem still remained.
So this is not a case where I haven’t tried plugs, coils, or different plug gaps.
FUEL SYSTEM
The fuel system has been heavily worked on.
Originally I had approximately 700 cc DeatschWerks port injectors.
Later I upgraded to Injector Dynamics ID1050X port injectors.
The port injectors have been inspected/cleaned.
Injector seals have been checked/replaced.
The direct-injection injector seals were also replaced because at one point my tuner suspected DI seals could be causing the misfire under load.
That did not solve it.
I installed larger fuel rails.
The car was converted to a return-style fuel system.
It has:
Fuel pressure regulator
Vacuum/boost reference
Fuel pressure gauge
Return line to the tank
Base fuel pressure was set around 50 psi according to the tuner.
Under boost I have seen fuel pressure rise. For example, at approximately 10 psi boost I saw around 60 psi fuel pressure.
The fuel pump setup has also been changed/tested.
At one point an aftermarket fuel pump looked like it might have been the cause. I actually thought I had finally found the problem.
That issue was corrected, but the WOT problem eventually came back.
So I have already addressed:
Fuel pump
Fuel pressure
Fuel regulator
Fuel return system
Fuel rails
Port injectors
Direct injectors/seals
Injector seals
Fuel delivery under boost
And again, the problem happens on both E85 and 93.
AFR / WIDEBAND
AFR has been monitored throughout the entire process.
Earlier configurations were approximately:
Idle/cruise: around 14:1
WOT: approximately 11.0–11.5:1
At one point with more boost on 93 the car was actually very rich, approximately 10:1 around 5,500 RPM at roughly 15 psi.
I use an AEM 30-0300 wideband.
The wideband itself has also been questioned because at one point it displayed a strange “66666” type error.
When the tune was very rich, the sensor tip and exhaust were noticeably black.
Even when AFR has looked safe—or even excessively rich—the cutting problem has still happened.
CRANK / CAM / ENGINE SENSORS
I have gone much deeper than just plugs and coils.
The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced/checked.
The camshaft position sensors have been replaced/checked.
Their wiring and connections have been inspected.
I have worked with the MAP sensor and MAP calibration.
I have also had a 4-bar MAP sensor available/configured.
There was a MAP-related calibration issue/code at one point, and that was addressed.
O2 sensors and their connectors have also been inspected.
Some connectors were cleaned/checked and dielectric grease was used where appropriate.
ELECTRICAL / GROUNDS
I have checked multiple electrical connections.
Fuses have been checked.
I added/reworked engine/chassis grounds to eliminate the possibility of a bad ground affecting the ECU, coils, sensors, or signal references under load.
Different harness connections have been inspected.
I have also had codes such as B1244/B12441 at different stages, plus other codes that have been investigated individually.
So far none of them consistently explain the WOT cutting problem.
ENGINE MECHANICAL CONDITION
Compression has been tested and was good.
The engine is now forged with CP-Carrillo components.
Oil pressure and temperature are monitored.
Typical engine oil temperature:
Approximately 198–205°F
Hard driving:
Approximately 210°F
Hot idle oil pressure:
Approximately 18–25 psi
Extremely hot idle:
Approximately 12–13 psi
WOT oil pressure:
Approximately 90–100 psi
Cold start:
Approximately 100–120 psi
I also have an engine oil cooler.
Nothing obvious in engine oil pressure or temperature has consistently lined up with the failure.
IAT / TEMPERATURES
I monitor intake air temperature.
Typical IAT has been around 30–33°C.
During extremely hot weather with the A/C running, I have seen around 57°C / 130°F in the manifold.
I have not found a specific IAT or temperature that always triggers the issue.
PCV / CRANKCASE VENTILATION
The car has two catch cans.
One handles the PCV side.
The other handles the clean/ventilation side.
The routing has been checked several times since converting the car to turbo.
Check valves have been used where necessary.
The connection toward the turbo inlet has also been reviewed.
After around 3,000 miles, the clean-side catch can had a small amount of oil.
The PCV catch can was almost clean.
Nothing in the crankcase ventilation system has clearly explained the WOT cutting.
BOOST / WASTEGATE
I have tested many different boost levels.
Approximately:
5 psi
7 psi
8 psi
9 psi
10 psi
12 psi
15 psi
Higher boost later
The problem existed at relatively low boost.
Different wastegate springs have been tested.
At one point I had a low spring setup around 5 psi and would see roughly 7–8 psi actual boost.
I also briefly tested a manual boost controller.
That was removed because with very little adjustment it caused a boost spike of approximately 28 psi.
Electronic boost control using a 3-port solenoid/EcuTek has also been considered/worked with.
The wastegate has always been one of the suspects because sometimes the failure physically feels like the car suddenly dumps power.
However, logs have not clearly shown the wastegate as the cause.
Boost piping and connections have also been inspected.
TUNING / LOGGING
The car is tuned through EcuTek.
I own the EcuTek cable/license.
I have worked remotely with a tuner.
We have done a large number of logs—approximately 30–34+ logs during different stages of troubleshooting.
The tuner has repeatedly checked things such as:
Knock
AFR
Fueling
Boost
Engine behavior
The frustrating part is that several times the car was physically cutting badly, but the logs did not show an obvious parameter explaining how violent the problem felt.
That is one of the reasons this has been so difficult to diagnose.
TRANSMISSION
The transmission is the Aisin/Toyota A960E 6-speed automatic.
The transmission has been serviced.
ATF has been changed.
Filter/strainer has been changed.
Pan gasket has been changed.
Toyota WS-type fluid has been used.
At one point after servicing the transmission, some 1-2-3 shifts felt harder/more violent.
Transmission temperature is monitored.
Normal driving:
Approximately 140–150°F
Hard driving:
Approximately 180°F
So the transmission has not been constantly overheating.
I also have an external transmission cooler with a fan.
At one point I used a large cooler approximately 23”x7”, and the cooler setup was later changed.
The cooler sits in the area between the front intercooler and A/C condenser.
Transmission/TCU tuning has also been investigated, but the tuner I was working with could not access/control the TCU the way we wanted.
I am currently researching clutch packs, steels, valve body, hydraulic pressure and torque converter components for the A960E, but I am NOT saying the transmission is definitely the problem.
It is simply another system I am investigating because so many other things have already been checked.
DRIVETRAIN / DIFFERENTIAL / DRIVESHAFT
Both rear hubs/wheel bearings have been replaced.
I found cracked/worn differential bushings.
Differential bushings/inserts/reinforcement have been investigated and worked on.
I have also installed several drivetrain reinforcement pieces.
The driveshaft/center support area has been worked on.
I have looked into stronger center-support solutions such as JXB-style components.
Transmission mount reinforcement and stiffer engine mounts have also been considered/worked on.
One interesting clue:
After installing some drivetrain reinforcement parts, the car improved significantly in 1st, 2nd and 3rd for a period of time.
That does NOT mean the problem is only in 4th.
Historically, the car has misfired/cut in almost every gear.
The improvement after stiffening the drivetrain is simply another clue that I think is worth mentioning.
WHEELS / TIRE SIZE
I have also considered wheel-speed differences because the car is not on the original tire configuration.
One of the current/recent setups has been approximately:
Front: 245/40R18
Rear: 265/35R18
Because I am already this deep into troubleshooting, I am considering whether front/rear rolling diameter differences could affect wheel-speed calculations, traction control, stability control or torque management.
WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN CHECKED OR CHANGED
At this point I have already dealt with:
OEM coils
Multiple spark plugs
Multiple plug gaps
Crank sensor
Cam sensors
MAP sensor/calibration
O2 sensors/connections
Grounds
Fuses
Electrical connections
Compression
Port injectors
ID1050X
Direct-injection seals
Injector seals
Fuel rails
Return-style fuel system
Fuel pressure regulator
Fuel pressure under boost
Fuel pump setup
93 octane
E85
Different boost levels
Different wastegate springs
Boost control
AFR
Wideband
30+ EcuTek logs
PCV system
Catch cans
Engine oil pressure
Engine oil temperature
IAT
Transmission fluid/filter
Transmission temperature
Transmission cooler
Differential bushings
Rear hubs
Driveshaft support
Drivetrain mounts/reinforcement
And the problem can STILL happen when I go WOT and the engine is under heavy load/boost.
WHAT I’M TRYING TO FIND
I’m not trying to automatically blame:
The transmission
The tune
The engine
The fuel system
The ignition system
I want to find the actual root cause.
The biggest symptom is:
Under WOT/high load/boost, the car can begin jerking/cutting/misfiring in almost any gear, and sometimes the Check Engine light flashes.
It has survived changes to almost every system normally blamed for a boosted misfire.
If anyone has experienced something genuinely similar on a turbo FA20 / Toyota 86 / BRZ / FR-S, especially an automatic car, I would really like to know what the final cause was.
At this point I’m especially interested in anything unusual that could fail only when the engine and drivetrain are under heavy torque/load, even though fuel pressure, AFR, ignition components, compression, sensors and logs appear normal.
What would you check next that I may have missed?
I don’t want to keep throwing parts at the car. I want to find the real problem.