r/nottheonion 4h ago

EV Renter Hit With $418 Charging Bill After Using Dealer's Public Charger

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ev-renter-hit-with-418-charging-bill-after-using-dealers-public-charger
990 Upvotes

108 comments sorted by

684

u/rosen380 4h ago

"It is apparently “reserved for its own customers and vehicles,” based on what the dealer told WXYZ, and priced exorbitantly to deter public use. Surely, the dealer could’ve blocked public use some other way if it really wanted to, or at least attached a disclaimer to ensure that anyone about to use the charger knew what they were signing themselves up for. And it goes without saying that this particular terminal probably shouldn’t be listed on EVgo, or indeed any public-charging map."

Can they legally make a product or service available, where it is consumed before payment, without the pricing be posted?

Feels like that is jus ta way for a business to literally charge ANYTHING THEY WANT without dissuading potential customers with extreme prices.

195

u/djfishfingers 4h ago

I got an EV this year. Most chargers are up front with the pricing. But I've come across chargers than for some reason do not want to disclose the price, at least easily. One is a block away from Costco. It would be great to charge there. But I can't find the cost and therefore I'm not charging there. I also never see anyone charge there. So it's probably very expensive.

There needs to be some standardization in the charging industry but I'm not sure that it will happen.

102

u/JohnApple94 3h ago

One time I came across a charger- I think an Electrify America- that had the pricing details on the screen. But when I selected it, it said something along the lines of “see app for pricing information”.

I think the only thing that irritates me more than a charger not displaying a price, is one that is set up to display the price but pushes you to the app anyway.

45

u/Funwithfun14 3h ago

The FTC needs to get involved with stuff like this

55

u/ukexpat 3h ago

This FTC?

-30

u/Funwithfun14 3h ago

Federal Trade Commission. They deal with unsavory business practices.

39

u/wjean 3h ago

While they might still deal with unsavory businesses, are they actually helping consumers in 2026?

37

u/whereyouatdesmondo 3h ago

That's what they used to do. Now they serve the oligarchs.

25

u/ukexpat 3h ago

In this administration?

3

u/Minamato 1h ago

“The deal *in* unsavory business practices.”
FTFY

15

u/vr0202 1h ago

It now standas for F__k The Consumer.

1

u/pimpy543 1h ago

Loool

22

u/maxfields2000 4h ago

That won't happen until EV's are much more common. Gas stations and how they worked took decades to standardize. To us it seems dumb as they are common place. In the US the only odd-ball is New Jersey and their "can't pump your own gas" laws :P

u/Puzzled-Story3953 38m ago

I thought Oregon also has that rule.

11

u/dominus_aranearum 2h ago

Not having pricing before interacting with any unattended equipment/machine should be a deterrent from using it at all. A local grocery store has a key making machine but no pricing until after you've inserted your key. Nope.

10

u/kevinds 2h ago

A local grocery store has a key making machine but no pricing until after you've inserted your key. Nope.

Different key blanks have different costs.

At least you can see what the price is before you start.

2

u/RadVarken 1h ago

Yeah, this one could make sense.

4

u/Jsamue 4h ago

Could you charge for a short predetermined time, and compare?

19

u/djfishfingers 3h ago

Usually(again nothing is standard) a charging station wants you to install an app, create an account, store your payment information...crap that I don't want to do unless I know I what I'm going to be paying.

10

u/ml20s 3h ago

Some chargers have initial fees, so you might get charged a large amount anyway

1

u/paulwesterberg 1h ago

And chargers can also be setup to charge at a low rate initially and then increase costs in order to deter people from using the station all day. So a malicious owner could have a lot rate for the first 5 minutes and then increase it substantially.

215

u/Mael135 4h ago

My work has a chargepoint like this if the thumbnail is accurate. Its not on the public charging map and password protected. I put the password in once in the app the first time i used it and and its been fine since.

Pretty sure this guy just wanted to charge people. Like the tip option at buisnesses that shouldnt be getting tips.

13

u/Hattrickher0 2h ago

Interestingly my work also has Chargepoint installed but they have a weird way the account is set up where in order to use them I need to sign up for a company Chargepoint account because regular user accounts are blocked from accessing them.

It's extra weird because I work at a place with gated entry so a member of the public can't even get to these chargers so it seems like a weird extra layer to add when stuff like this password system is available.

3

u/Mael135 2h ago

Yeah that is weird. Our password is attached to the station ID. We searched for the station then put in the password and my account just remebers it.

The station does not shown up on any maps by defult

1

u/kevinds 2h ago

Your work place wants to track the employees using it.

2

u/Nop277 1h ago

I've also seen if where they put it on the public charging map because I think they were giving money to people to install chargers. My old work got like a grant to do this. But then they put signs on it or otherwise try to restrict use to everybody but themselves or their customers.

26

u/byerss 4h ago

Pretty sure this is the direct result of friction between the car manufacturers and the dealerships. 

Manufactures require them to have public charges so buying their EV more appealing with more chargers available. 

Dealerships hate EVs because they don’t require nearly the same level of routine service and are generally simpler and more reliable so they don’t make money gouging customers on the back end. 

So they put in the required charger but then gouge on charging price. 

Basically never charge at a dealership if you can help it. Especially these days, there are so many options popping up! 

14

u/JohnApple94 3h ago

Was just on a roadtrip and stopped at a charger which happened to be at a dealership. $0.55/kwh, which is pricey but whatever. The kicker though was that it was capped at 60kw, which is very slow for a fast charger.

Ended up finding a ChargePoint at a gas station down the street at 3x the speed and 15 cents cheaper.

Will always double check the chosen stations when I use EV routing from now on.

6

u/Oak510land 3h ago

Sounds like they've adopted the US healthcare billing model.

1

u/rosen380 3h ago

Nah, I think they skipped right by that and went with "I got sick on a cruise ship".

3

u/tribbans95 3h ago

Yeah you could easily make it run by a little key or code. That’s how I fill my gas tank for the municipality I work for

2

u/SinisterCell 1h ago

If they're listed as public it's because they're required by either law or the contract to open those chargers up for the public. I work for a private company that got a tax break towards the install by allowing public use. If they show up on the apps, it's because they're available for public use.

They're probably charging a crazy amount to deter the public from using them. Likely a violation of their contract or their tax break incentive. I'd report them to the manufacturer.

2

u/bigred83 3h ago

Hospitals and doctors do it all the time!

1

u/maybejakkinit 2h ago

I had to use one in a desperate case where there wasn't another one around. The screen on it wasnt working but I managed to get it to work with their app and some tenacity. It e ded up charging me over a hundred dollars for what I'd normally expect to be around 40 dollars. I was bullshit about it but all I could really do is leave a Google review and move on with my life I guess.

1

u/A_Harmless_Fly 1h ago

Could be time we finally crack down on menus without prices and surcharges not being included. I'm pretty sure that would fall under the same thing, and everyone just accepts it.

1

u/RadVarken 1h ago

If the price isn't shown, it's negotiable.

u/ThaBroccoliDood 50m ago

I would imagine that is not legal. You can't sell a beer at a bar and have it priced at $1,000,000

1

u/TheKobayashiMoron 3h ago

Pricing disclosure would depend on local laws. They would have to reframe the way they handle EV charging to be more in line with gasoline. Most places require gas prices to be displayed prominently on the pump and on a sign visible from the road. As it stands now, Tesla for example, doesn’t even have screens on their chargers, so there’s no way to even display the price other than on the app or in your car on the dashboard.

Can they restrict the charger from public use? Absolutely. As others have said, I too have chargers at work that aren’t open to the public. We have to register our user account and get added to a whitelist for it to work.

1

u/kevinds 2h ago

It falls apart when you realize that their customers would be charged the insane rates too.

u/TheManWhoClicks 58m ago

It’s the hospital way of money making

-5

u/Masrim 3h ago

Well if you buy something without checking the price first, is it the fault of the person selling it?

5

u/rosen380 3h ago

Sure, to some degree-- I don't have an EV (yet), but the article says he was subscribed to an EVgo plan which includes paying certain rates and the EVgo app tells you that you can use this particular charger, then I guess I might assume that the rate described in my subscription applies...?

Of course we all know what happens when you assume, but at least from the details in the linked article, it feels like "regular EVgo rates" were a reasonable assumption.

157

u/EnergyDrinkStroke 4h ago

Seems like the US needs price regulation on ev charging but I wouldn't hold my breath.

79

u/Arponare 4h ago

Finding a public EV charger is the fifth circle of hell. I did a cross country trip and ran into just about every issue you can imagine. First of all, it seems like everyone and their mother wants you to download an app. Why the fuck do I need an app? I should just be able to tap and go. Secondly, half the time it doesn’t even work. When it does work, the prices can fluctuate wildly based on the city (fair enough) time of day, how many people have been using it. That is kinda annoying.

EV charging prices and methods definitely need to be regulated. I wouldn’t hold my breath though like you said. In the city is fine as long as you have a home charger. For long trips, may god have mercy on your soul.

31

u/bcredeur97 4h ago

Ionna has been doing a great job addressing a lot of the issues with EV charging. They can’t roll out fast enough lol

9

u/corys00 4h ago

Also for Ionna users, September 4 - 8 it's $0.20 per kWh across their entire network.

They did this for Memorial Day weekend as well. I thought that was an awesome promo.

5

u/derekdepenguinman 2h ago

Ionna was one of the best places I charged at on my last road trip. I’ve had good luck with Pilot as well

6

u/rendeld 3h ago

How recent is your experience. It is currently light-years better than it was when I bought my first EV in 2021. I have my gripes with the current system but cross country trips are possible now and a lot easier even in deep red states than they used to be. I've driven from Detroit to Nashville a couple of times at this point and I'm planning a couple more trips as well. There's an App called ABRP (A Better Route Planner) that is extremely helpful for all of this.

2

u/Arponare 3h ago

I did my trip last month. It’s certainly doable. Just not ideal. I drove from NYC to LA.

0

u/ninetaledMSK 2h ago

Oh damn no wonder, you drove coast to coast. I'm suprised they have electricity in some of thoes areas.

2

u/drhugs 1h ago

Which science fiction story had it where a person could drive from the east coast to the Mississippi River in all underground parking?

5

u/JohnApple94 3h ago

I echo the other commenter’s sentiments who called out IONNA.

Used one of their stations on a road trip the other day and they literally solved all the issues I frequently have with other chargers.

Cheap, fast, plenty of spots, all chargers functional, covered from the elements, no app needed to start. Night and day difference compared to using just about any other charger brand.

Only issue is that there’s only 1 IONNA station on my usual road trip route. Can’t wait to see more of them pop up.

2

u/chownrootroot 2h ago

There's also Walmart's network, believe it or not, it's pretty good. Same for GM and Mercedes networks.

The best networks are using Alpitronics hardware: Ionna, Walmart, Mercedes, even Electrify America has a few (but it's a mixed network). You want good charging you find the nearest charger with Alpitronics hardware. It's the charging equivalent of caviar.

u/FewAdvertising9647 10m ago

there's speculation that big retail stores are going to get more competitive because there's one thing EV charging stations currently have an advantage to against gas pumps, which is ironically time to finish getting fuel being longer.

A gas pump, you are out in minutes from entering and pumping. with EV charging, you might be there for half an hour or more, so it gives incentives for big stores to have chargers to get people waiting on charging to shop.

8

u/innerearinfarction 4h ago

Do you want to develop an app?

7

u/Icantjudge 4h ago

Charge Finderzzz

3

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 3h ago

Yeah yet another app will solve this 😂

1

u/ml20s 3h ago

I'm sure the N+1th app will solve the problem of too many apps 😅

4

u/The_Super_D 4h ago

That's the main reason I'm going to have at least one gas-powered car for the foreseeable future. We'll have one electric for daily driving, and gas car as a secondary car and for long trips.

1

u/mondaymoderate 3h ago

Plug in Hybrid is the answer right now until the infrastructure is reliable

3

u/icecream_specialist 3h ago

Plug in hybrid is actually worst of both worlds for a lot of people. It works for me because I have free charging at work and my battery capacity is almost exactly my round trip commute, and I charge on a regular wall plug if I feel like it when at home. Most people would just end up never charging and drive an extra heavy less efficient hybrid. I realize it varies but this is well documented in Europe where people/companies bought PHEV because of incentives and never charge them.

1

u/Sirwired 2h ago

Anyone with a garage or driveway next to the house is good to go for a Plug-in Hybrid. Even an ordinary wall outlet is fast enough for most standard commutes.

1

u/icecream_specialist 2h ago

Agreed, that's exactly what I do. But in practice that is not don't consistently

0

u/bionicfeetgrl 2h ago

dude its the best. I have no range anxiety, even if i exhaust the battery I get great gas mileage. if I can charge at work....great (its super cheap) if not, no big deal I can charge at home. I love my PHEV and will likely stick with those from here on out

3

u/icecream_specialist 1h ago

If it works for you it's a great option, I have one and it's perfect for me. I'm just saying majority of people would probably be better off with a regular hybrid

2

u/edwardlego 4h ago

In europe it’s very easy. I have an rfid badge and (mostly) 1 app. i never came across a charger i couldn’t activate with it. Tesla fast chargers are an exception, for those you meed the tesla app. Pricing is 9 times out of 10 disclosed in the app, the other 1/10, i’ve found the price on the display of the charger

5

u/SoCalThrowAway7 4h ago

I think that depends heavily on where you live. I’ve never had trouble finding public chargers in California

3

u/mondaymoderate 3h ago

It’s usually cross country trips where people complain. Some people will go out of their way to find the closest charger and get there only to find it’s broken.

2

u/Arponare 3h ago

It was a cross country trip. I can find them in my city just fine for the most part.

1

u/kevinds 2h ago

Finding a public EV charger is the fifth circle of hell.

Finding a charger has never been my issue. Finding a charger with a reasonable rate has always been the issue I've faced.

-3

u/TruthNotTrash2 4h ago

Yes, the absolute morons currently posing as your "gubmint" getting involved in green energy pricing is just the solution!

3

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 3h ago

Don't even need to be price control. Just require clear pricing to be posted like gas stations are required to do.

Do you think gas stations should be able to sell gas without clearly displaying the price with some randomly charging $40/gallon?

7

u/EnergyDrinkStroke 4h ago

Yes... Price caps are effective and many countries have them. If the free market could fix itself then we wouldn't have these issues but it can't.

49

u/explosiveegg 3h ago edited 3h ago

Wild that a dealship would pull this crap. If you don't want people using your chargers make them private...

For people unaware, and so they can avoid it, this occurred at Elder Hyundai in Macomb MI.

14

u/advanturer 3h ago

All dealership chargers have been frustrating experiences for me. Many are able to access after hours according to the app and the charger but when you are onsite charging police or private security will ask you to leave stating it is closed when the dealership is closed. I have also ran into dealer cars just parked in the spots to block the chargers during normal hours too.

3

u/speak-eze 3h ago

Yeah because people really needed another reason to hate Hyundai /s

18

u/pickled-pilot 3h ago

I have charged at plenty of ChargePoint chargers. They can be locked with a code to prevent public use. They also always display the price. This was a ridiculous rate but who just starts charging without checking the rate?

u/thishasntbeeneasy 45m ago

Sounds about as easy as private parking where people drive past a city spot at $1 an hour and instead park inside the private lot at $10 an hour and then whine about the price.

38

u/Friendral 4h ago

Charging costs should be required like gas prices are.

18

u/ScottRoberts79 4h ago

Chargepoint chargers, like the ones in the article, display the cost. But you have to actually look at the screen to see it.

39

u/makingnoise 4h ago

That's funny, because more than half of the Chargepoint chargers I've used you CAN'T SEE the freaking screen because it's been deep fried by solar UV rays.

6

u/lioncat55 3h ago

I work for a company that makes EV chargers and runs the network for them. If you want to get NTEP or CTEP certified (one of them is required for most rebates) you have to show the pricing and you have to be really clear with it.

-4

u/BlackCrackWhack 4h ago

They are, the user of this one is an idiot. 

9

u/alt-227 3h ago edited 1m ago

I used a charger a couple of weeks ago that has a $50/hr idle fee as well as a $1/hr use fee (on top of the charge for electricity). It was at a ski resort, so I get why they do that as the parking is in a premium area. They could turn that shit off in the summer, though.

Anyway, the extra pricing was very easy to see, and I got an email from ChargePoint warning me about the idle fee as soon as I started charging.

u/internetlad 25m ago

Be the one time I wouldn't mind seeing some guy in a dualie triple parked across all the spaces 

9

u/whumpied 3h ago

ah yes the classic dealership move of charging you in every sense of the word

3

u/Facial_Factory 1h ago

There's that EV infrastructure we were looking for

2

u/n0oo7 2h ago

I rented an ev a year before i bought my tesla. We charged at a dealer chargepoint that was super cheap, and they tripled the price 3 minutes AFTER we plugged in. Chargepoint sucks.

2

u/kevinds 2h ago

had been billed at a rate of $5 per kilowatt-hour and $5 per minute.

I've seen rates like this before.. Not sure why they even bother having a charger, nobody should be dumb enough to use it.

Tesla chargers are stupid at $0.88/kwh, never mind charging more than that.

It is apparently “reserved for its own customers and vehicles,” based on what the dealer told WXYZ

Their own customers would be charged that too.

next time you’re on the road and displaced from your typical public charger, to take note that not all public stations are priced with you in mind.

That goes for most of them unfortunately.

2

u/Riptide360 1h ago

Shhezus EvGo. The bad publicity on this is deserved. 31 times the normal rate for roaming agreements is predatory and the reason why laws get passed.

4

u/Mysterious-Tie7039 3h ago

It’s dealers not actually wanting people to charge there, so they make the price exorbitant.

4

u/westsideriderz15 2h ago

Welcome.. to late stage capitalism with unchecked EV regulation….

‘Jurassic park theme ensues’

2

u/bluenoser613 3h ago

‘Murica! Land of the fee.

1

u/apworker37 1h ago

Ain’t nuthin’ free these days.

2

u/Vahuo89 4h ago

So it was NOT a public charger...

6

u/advanturer 3h ago

They probably got a tax write off or dealer incentive or was required to put in to sell ev’s

1

u/[deleted] 4h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator 4h ago

Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/apworker37 1h ago

“…extremely low on juice, estimating he had about 20 minutes of driving range left.”

I’ve never calculated my range in minutes. Is that a new thing?

1

u/drhugs 1h ago

Oftentimes people describe distance in terms of (driving) time.

That's for ICE vehicles though, where re-fueling is virtually instantaneous.

1

u/fflip8 1h ago

What I don't understand is why EV charging rates are so high even at the "standard" networks. In like 90% of the country if you plug in at home it's less than 15 cents per kWh, but for some reason if you plug in on a public charger it's going to be anywhere from 30 to 70 cents per kWh, very easily more expensive than gas.

u/coma24 6m ago

they're for-profit companies and they do have overhead to cover. Interestingly, commercial electricity rates are often based not on kwh's delivered but realized kw rates. If you have 10 Level 3 DCFC's all running at max speeds, the electricity costs the facility way more, proportionally, than if one person is charging at a given time. Unfortunately, this variable pricing isn't passed onto the customer at all, resulting in pretty significant margins at many facilities. That, and a massive number of EV's charge very slowly, so even if the bays are full, the realized rate of delivery is still relatively low. It would be really interesting to see the margins they've actually seeing, month over month (fixed overhead excluded).

u/Judg_Mentl 49m ago

Sure hope nothing happens to their charging station in the middle of the night

1

u/lioncat55 3h ago

The user here was dumb and did not look in to the pricing at all. Charge Point tells you the pricing on the screen.

2

u/npbruns1 2h ago

100%. Chargepoint stations are owned by the dealerships and they can set pricing. They should've set them up for dealership use only but who just starts charging without checking the price when its easily listed?

This user is not the brightest crayon in the box

-2

u/alvehyanna 1h ago

I mean it's a Hynidai dealership, what do you expect? Both them and Kia can be super shady.
I have an EV, a Ford Mach-e. My dealership has chargers, including DC fast charges and it's the same base rate for everybody and very affordable. The article does point that out, that most dealerships consider them open to the public and charge fairly. Rightfully so. This dealership is greedy.