r/robotech 6d ago

Wow, Talk About Learning Fast...

¿Am I really the only one who didn't know how arrogantly rude and respectful Macross fans are? Holy shit... I've been told to go fuck myself as a form of introduction before, but never by a whole "community"...
(Actually no, I forgot to include the so-called "2A community," but that's complicated this wasn't.)

31 Upvotes

84 comments sorted by

41

u/theShpydar 6d ago

As a general rule, Macross fans hate Robotech fans with the fury of a thousand exploding suns.

It's weird.

24

u/brachus12 6d ago

they hate HG and how they’ve blocked everything else for decades and taking it out on RT fans

27

u/AngryTree76 6d ago

They hate HG because they‘ve continually blocked new Macross from being released in the US.

Robotech fans hate HG because all they’ve done is continually block new Macross from being released in the US.

11

u/-chadwreck 6d ago

I came in on macross plus somehow in the early 2000s, and didnt quite understand how Macross and RT were different at the time. I fell deeply in love with the GameCube game RT:Battlecry so its not like I have no allegiance to the RT brand. (its still great game worth trying, if a little janky.) But honestly, I now understand why RT gets the hate. 

Its not that RT is in itself inferior or an affront to Macross, plenty of series get differing localizations, look at starblazers, power rangers, and voltron.

The problem with being an RT fan in the modern day though, is that it further cements HG's ability to block actual, quality Macross content from hitting US markets.

We didnt get the game Macross:30 because of HG for instance, and a ton of other stuff.

Its a shit company with no projects since 2006 and the only reason they limp along is because of the RT community, so the RT fans get dumped on for continuing the problem and being like "what? Its fine?"

We are all being robbed and a tiny cohort of the fan base is literally the dam holding up a deluge of material and I think a lot of folks take offense to it. 

Is the hate misplaced? Probably? But also, mospeada and southern cross are strangled on top of macross because one junk localizer who is too big for their britches gets in the way. If macross were allowed to exist in US media markets, harmony gold would absolutely get crushed by it. 

Its in HG's best interest for RT fans to remain "ignorant" of the situation, and they are able to feed off of the division they themselves have created. They have parked on a global IP to keep milking a product roughly 45 years old with no possibility of adapting new material. So its like... fuck those guys for that, but also trotting out the RT fan base as human shields. 

5

u/More-read-than-eddit 6d ago

I mean I guarantee Harmony Gold would not go away if people weren't self-identified Robotech fans online. Why would they>

2

u/-chadwreck 6d ago

What are they making money off of?

You are probably right that they wouldn't fold like... over night but RT is a substantial leg of their operation at this point.

If the IP is so valuable that they fight like they do for it, it says to me that its a substantial portion of their earnings. 

2

u/More-read-than-eddit 6d ago

I assume that they earn enough from selling streaming and physical disc rights to the back catalog to keep the literal lights and lease going (I actually randomly drove past their HQ in Los Angeles the other day, it's not bad looking!), and like the random person who likes the IP and pops into that sub is almost certainly not material to their financial model.

3

u/Terrible-Bet5950 6d ago

They are a real estate company.

1

u/More-read-than-eddit 6d ago

Not sure I understand. There's no indication of that on their website, unless you are counting rental of their screening room.

1

u/Terrible-Bet5950 6d ago

Well I was going to supply links but its literally all over their stuff. Google summary, Wikipedia, their website....

1

u/More-read-than-eddit 6d ago

Indulge my apparent inability to research.

https://harmonygold.com/about-us/

1

u/-chadwreck 6d ago

The world is more than reddit lol. And I dont say that as a dismissal to you. I just mean that the vast majority of RT fans are not likely hanging out in here. 

There are toys and games and such that still get sold with the RT badge on them to this day, so its not like HG isn't producing literally nothing but HG has backed themselves into a corner with a bodge job like the created RT series. 

They might be able to resurrect new material by adapting modern Macross content, but I have no doubt that that is not an option to them. They can still buy license rights to toy molds, clearly... so there is a product catalog for them but again, im not sure sure what else they are selling. 

So, who knows. I am largely talking out of intuition here more than real industrial knowledge but it seems to me if they could afford to do more than the bare minimum with the IP, they would. And if they can afford to do more but won't, then they suck even worse than we thought. 

1

u/More-read-than-eddit 6d ago

I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying any fans of Macross should realize that, small as the RT fandom may be in this year of our lord, anyone discussing it on Reddit is a completely immaterial factor in HG's continued existence.

3

u/-chadwreck 6d ago

Oyy, now I get it!  Yeah, haha. All 400 people who hang out on the robotech sub are single handedly holding up HG lol.

1

u/flukus 5d ago

There's the odd game too, battlycry, the GBA on and it's switch remaster.

1

u/toph_man 6d ago

Great points actually

1

u/flukus 5d ago

We didnt get the game Macross:30 because of HG for instance

I didn't even know I was pissed about that!

1

u/GospelX 6d ago

HG was not the block. Big West has been sore about the situation for decades and just didn't want to play ball by sharing profits in licensing. HG has always just been in favor of making money. And they're not as vile about it as people tend to believe. When 2 and Plus got licensed under their noses they just went, "Oops," and let it be. But when they're aware, they're in favor of getting their cut.

Mospeada and Southern Cross unfortunately suffer from being appreciated less. They weren't exactly huge in Japan, and the sales of the original versions of the series in the West weren't exactly stellar both times they tried.

2

u/brachus12 6d ago

They literally rent properties in California. So yes, they are that vile.

7

u/aceoftherebellion 6d ago

100% it’s this.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

So I see. Damn.

2

u/FrozenOnPluto 6d ago

Want to start a fight? Just say “hot take, but I .. like Robotech better”

Its true for me

34

u/WhisperingSideways 6d ago

I never understand the animosity. Most Robotech fans are in their 40s and 50s now, and discovered it long before there was an internet and even had access to the original series, much less even knew it was a re-dubbed hybrid.

In 1985 as a teenager it absolutely blew my mind and I’m still very fond of it in my mid-50s. The voice cast was superb and all of the music cues and songs they created was a very impressive feat.

The haters are younger “purists” who are incapable of enjoying two different things for different reasons.

16

u/agentduckman12 6d ago

I feel like there's also a good chunk of the robotech fan base that are younger because their parents introduced them to it that's the case with me I'm 19 and I'm a fan of robotech because my dad got me into it robotech is the reason why I'm a fan of Gundam and other Mecha

11

u/MikeyH76 6d ago

I blame The Zentradi.

8

u/Rags2Riches420 6d ago

Specifically Khyron.

3

u/LTFalcon 6d ago

The Backstabber.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 6d ago

¿Why, what did we do?

1

u/_WillCAD_ 6d ago

Zentran or Meltran?

2

u/Midnightplat 6d ago edited 6d ago

In my experience, younger fans tend to be more tolerant of different mecha franchises and even "why not both" Robotech and Macross and accept the complicated relationship between Robotech and Macross. It's honestly, and speaking as someone in his early 50s, dudes who grew up with not so much ownership but a sense that they can substitute fandom for a larger developed personality that tend to be the explosive personalities online. Especially with Robotech and Macross, the "next generation" of fans are really dwarfted by the OG, kinda like G.I. Joe and Transformers, etc. Like yes, younger people do consume that stuff, but the vast amount of media and toys are being picked up by what the toy industry at least calls "kidults", who are mostly middle aged men with the income to dispose on toys and comics.

2

u/paintdrinkinggoblin 6d ago

Its so weird to see something that was effectively my gateway drug now just be a dead end that does nothing but make it harder to engage with newer content from its own donor parts. Its so weird to want this foundational piece of my community to hurry up and die rather than continuing to convulse on the floor in a mess of half-assed merchandise and abandoned projects.

12

u/RobboDrawsStuff 6d ago

Yeah.
Strangely though, you don't see Mospeada or Southern Cross fans hating on Robotech.
Nor, Golion or Dairugger XV fans hating on Voltron.
Nor, Yamato fans hating on Starblazers.
I could probably go through all the 80s classic adaptations, but you get the point.

5

u/WadeTurtle 6d ago

It's mostly because if it weren't for Harmony Gold, Macross would have easily won its popularity war against Gundam in the USA ages ago. (Or so they believe.)

5

u/LargoVonBob 6d ago

I don't know if it would have been more popular, but I hate that it never got the chance.

1

u/paintdrinkinggoblin 6d ago

Well southern cross fans kinda don't exist and as a mospeada/new generation fan I fucking want to blow my brain out because mospeada is starting to get new projects over in Japan and trying to get any of the related figures and getting them over here is like pulling teeth when your a younger fan of any of tobotechs donors and your only options are either piracy or insanely costly collectors items it kinda sours you. Even through my love of the show I got into battletech after they finally resolved that decades long legal shit show and some of the mechs they licensed from shoji kawamori started reappearing and it's only strengthend my burning hatred of HG

1

u/Mandatory_Carry 6d ago

Uh, I have seen SC fans hating on it, but that was a particular sect (I say sect because "cult" is a little too harsh), and it MOST CERTAINLY wasn't ALL of them, just like a half-dozen.

13

u/Additional_Pop_7660 6d ago

To be fair, not all of them are like that. Especially people that discovered Macross through Robotech. I'm a big Macross fan, I have watched every sequel series and movies but, I also love Robotech, it was the first "cartoon" that shocked me with some real life lessons like character deaths, break-ups, and losing a war. The best you can do is enjoy Robotech and not interact with Macross gatekeepers.

5

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

"Especially people that discovered Macross through Robotech."

I'm noticing that too, Rᴏʙᴏᴛᴇᴄʜ fans don't hate om much of anything. If you started in one, it carries over, but if you started in the other it doesn't...

2

u/Additional_Pop_7660 5d ago

Yeah, I guess it's a matter of timing. Us old farts enjoyed Robotech first, and the whole "they mangled three excellent animé into one!" complaint is not only valid for Robotech. It was a common practice back then to "westernize" foreign shows. Voltron, G-Force, Force Five, and many many more shows were completely changed. So, they should expand their hatred beyond Robotech haha

6

u/aceoftherebellion 6d ago

As a fan of both, I think it’s misdirected aggression for the most part. Macross fans seem to get a chip on their shoulder in regard to HG’s business practices, which I think we can all agree is valid. But I think that gets warped into an undeserved animosity towards Robotech itself, which I think we can all agree is NOT valid.

I can sort of understand developing a pet peeve when it comes to how difficult it can be to separate robotech lore with macross lore for the casual viewer, but I can’t understand the attitude some fans have about it.

All I can say is that it’s not the majority who feels that way, just a very vocal and obnoxious minority.

3

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

We CAN all agree that hating on HG is totally deserved. It's like they've worked in being hated...

6

u/Markinoutman 6d ago

Yeah, I've received some pretty strong reactions on that sub simply for using Rick instead of Hikaru. Being called a Robotard and dumb shit like that. I typically don't engage over there, but I find some of the posts interesting. The Robotech sub is a lot more chill, but obviously has less going on due to Harmony Gold allowing this property to just languish into oblivion.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

Fuck HG and anyone involved after Karl passed away...

7

u/Jojonskimyounabouken 6d ago

Gonna add my 2 cents that another factor which I think influenced this is : Shoji Kawamori, the creator of macross, genuinely despise robotech. And I can't blame him since robotech was actually made without his permission, and they erased his name from the credits. And he said it a couple of times in interviews that it really baffles him how people can do that, macross was his blood, sweat, and tears.

Often time, staffs would warn people to "PLEASE DON'T MENTION ROBOTECH TO HIM" when he became a guest at events / panels. I heard a few fans did that, (not maliciously, just totally clueless) and got kicked out immediately

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

Some precedent, ok. Good to know, and yes I do understand the parallel, but comparing the Alita Army's psychopathic rage at Alita hentai (and I think it only apply to her specifically) to this is putting it to at least at breaking strain...

2

u/silverthornne 3d ago

Whoa, I didn't know Robotech doesn't credit Kawamori. That's insane, and more reason to despise HG.

4

u/VHDamien 6d ago

I enjoy both to be honest.

My fury is only directed at Harmony Gold.

3

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

Fuck HG and anyone involved after Karl passed away.

4

u/PomegranateFair3973 6d ago edited 6d ago

Reddit sometimes distills the worst aspects of a community into one place.

I love Macross. I also love Robotech. I see them as two separate things with some DNA in common. Only hate I will throw towards the Robotech franchise is towards its owners, because... Fuck Harmony Gold. But I don't feel like that is a controversial opinion.

Edit: Let's see how this goes... 😅 Just made a new subreddit to be welcoming of both Macross and Robotech fans. Anyone want to join me over at r/MaCrossPeadaTech? It's either going to be amazing or a total disaster shitshow...

1

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

Fuck HG any anyone else involved since Karl passed away... And all of them in the ass.

2

u/PomegranateFair3973 5d ago

Hey, some people like anal. Don't offer those people at HG something they might enjoy!

1

u/Mandatory_Carry 4d ago

Fair point, I shouldn't threaten them with what they want.

3

u/Midnightplat 6d ago

I'm sorry you had a rough experience wherever you were. There are forums and spaces where Robotech and Macross can be discussed in peaceful coexistance. It's just a matter for finding them. Honestly I've had far more experience or exposure to older Robotech fans who feel they're fan stuff personally kept the brand alive in the 90s or whatever and take that self-assurance as license to dump on people doing work on Robotech in HG's current more permissive licensing toward creators.

But Harmony Gold's Robotech frustrated a lot of North American and elsewhere Macross fandom access to Macross media. I think the soreness is mostly toward HG and I can conceive of Macross fans seeing RT fans as representatives of HG, because that's an underthought framing of fandom. But again, I see far worse in Robotech Civil Wars among fans than I do in cross franchise volleys.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

¿Rᴏʙᴏᴛᴇᴄʜ Civil Wars? Now I'm afraid to learn the answer...

2

u/Midnightplat 5d ago

Not a real thing, but more a mental placeholder to mark interactions I've seen by some old guard fans trying to dump on more recent licensed creators who didn't make use of the old guard fanon. Online version of that guy who cusses you out over voicemail, and then leave 87 more voicemails to the same effect.

3

u/anywhereanyone 6d ago

The joys of fandoms.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

"We're doomed."

4

u/Due_Sky_2436 4d ago

I'm interesting in hearing about the 2A community as well. Macross fans are.... um, very committed to their little anime and can't understand that other people might like the other version, or might actually like both. Fuck those "Macross purists" I'll like whatever I want in the way I choose.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 2d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/MandatoryCarry/
And invitation sir, and I agree sir; I'll like whatever I want.
“After a lot of futile arguing, they accepted that we Tśentrædi are all basically nuts and let us do whatever the Hell we want because “¡FUCK YOU!” that’s why.”
That wasn't directed at you, sir.

5

u/hayashikin 6d ago

Looking at your post history in the Macross sub, all I see is you constantly forcing Robotech story points there.

I mean if someone there came here to and do something like try correcting every characters name to their Macross ones, don't you think it would irritate the people here?

I don't even see any of your posts being severely downvoted or anything. Where is the rude response you were mentioning?

2

u/BrianofKrypton 6d ago

I once tried to write a Macross guide for the Robotech fan after all the new Macross stuff dropped on Hulu and it got taken down on both subs.

1

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

Way to prove my point there buddy- It was literally ONE comment. And all I did was name the man.

So. Now for a position fix for you; You lied to me, about me. "If your way of introducing yourself to a compete stranger is to tell them to go fuck themselves" and ya, that counts, twice really, "YOU are the problem in your universe. Fix THAT before you try 'fixing' them." Now good day, sir.

4

u/gregmelayne 6d ago

I think the word you are looking for is 'upitty"

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 6d ago

And that too...

2

u/BrianofKrypton 6d ago

I'm a fan of both. As such I say fuck HG from both sides of the fandom.

3

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

I mean ya, that's one thing both agree on. Fuck HG, fuck the YUNES, and fuck anyone involved after Karl passed away...

2

u/Admirable-Advice-473 6d ago

Macross is SUPERIOR. But without Robotech I would not have known about the SUPERIOR franchise. When you KNOW better, you DO better.
I have Macross30 for PS3 and LOVED it!

2

u/Dear_Discussion_4083 5d ago

I like both series. I used to participate in the websites, Facebook groups and other fan sites. I did some fan videos and cgi art for decades. But I’ve removed myself from most fandom groups for both series because of the toxicity of the fans. Sometimes I check in like today, but then I see what is happening and then I check out. Seems like nothing has changed, so sadly, I’ll just stick to checking in once in a while. Too bad. There was a time when things were looking up. I’m too old to waste more time hoping for something to change.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

I like Macross I don't love it like a daughter or something but I like it...

2

u/Bhagwan9797 5d ago

I discovered Macross years after I saw Robotech for the first time. I was a little kid in the 80’s and had no idea it was made the way it was. Now when I watch it I really only watch the new generation third. I have the dubbed Macross dvd box set so i watch that instead of the Macross saga part. I like Robotech for what it is even though I don’t watch all of the parts anymore.

I’m nearly fifty years old, I don’t give a shit what cartoons other old guys watch.

2

u/Maleficent_Ad_8890 6d ago

Haters gotta hate. Block and ignore.

3

u/toph_man 6d ago

Well I am in both communities. But yeah most of the hate is more toward Harmony Gold more than anything. Not sure what you did to get the macross fans mad at you? Any context?

6

u/Markinoutman 6d ago

I've had strong reactions simply from using Rick and Lisa over there lol. It doesn't take much, been called a Robotard and other things. Some people are just assholes.

2

u/toph_man 6d ago

Yeah I could see that. I think it’s just them getting annoyed by macross and robotech being confused with one another but yeah no need to be rude about it.

1

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

¿There's anyone who does confuse them? I get using the "wrong" names is irritating to some, but all of US know Rᴏʙᴏᴛᴇᴄʜ is one thing, Macross is another... Hell I even found half-size letters just to sperg out that little bit more on the diffrence.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago edited 5d ago

All I did was give Emil LANG'S name.

EIDT: Ahj, he hasn't blocked me (yet); https://www.reddit.com/r/macross/comments/1vx2w7f/comment/p62mmbf/?context=3

1

u/_WillCAD_ 6d ago

Yeah, I've seen it here and there. I just never mention robotech to a macross fan. RT is considered an abomination because of the plot changes made to Macross, and the character name changes.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

How dare he bring it to a new market...

1

u/nickgamboa76 6d ago

You mean, any fandom…for the most part.

2

u/Mandatory_Carry 5d ago

We're doomed.

2

u/silverthornne 3d ago edited 3d ago

I grew up with Robotech in the 80s. It has a special place in my heart, and I just LOVE Ulpio Minucci's amazing score. A lot of the background score in Robotech is superior in quality and composition than the equivalent Macross tracks. Just the background music; Minmay's English songs are a catastrophe.

Anyway, Harmony Gold is ass. I own a Japanese Bluray of Do You Remember Love. It's a masterpiece. We can't get it because HG somehow believes they have a holy right over the VF-1, the SDF-1, and the original Macross characters. When the latest Macross game, Shooting Insight (not an awesome game, but Macross nonetheless) got localized, they removed all the DYRL content because of HG.

Even in their heyday, HG was ass. They licensed the VF-1 to Matchbox to make a toy, and the toy does not transform. It has a few parts that make it seem like it was meant to transform, but they gave up somewhere along the way (I still have mine). Every licensed VF-1 toy with a Robotech logo pales in comparison to Arcadia, Yamato, or Bandai VF-1 toys, but as long as Robotech merchandise continues to sell, HG is motivated to gate off access to the original Macross TV series and DYRL.

Do I hate Robotech? No. In fact, it has a special place in my heart. I do hate how HG has decreed that because they got the rights to Macross in the 80s (ironically because the producer, Carl Macek, was interested in a faithful Macross adaptation but was forced to add in more content to get syndication access) they have a right to keep all Macross content away from the rest of the world until that new agreement that allowed Disney to bring content produced after DYRL over. They still think DYRL and the series has to be gated off, and that is a tragedy I hate them for.

1

u/Mandatory_Carry 2d ago

"Harmony Gold is ass."

Yes, I think we all agree about this.

1

u/grebo-guru 4d ago

Just avoid Robodrek and watch the originals. It’s not like Southern Cross is great (it’s debatable if it’s even good) but it got severely mangled. Macross is great and got mildly mangled. Mospeada is good and got mildly mangled. Megazone 23 is fantastic and it was drastically mangled.

1

u/Mandatory_Carry 2d ago

“If your way of introducing yourself to a complete stranger is to tell them to fuck themselves, YOU are the problem in your universe. Fix that before you try ‘fixing’ them.”
GOOD DAY, SIR.