r/OldSchoolCool • u/db7112 • Jul 27 '26
1950s Sylvia Plath in happier times, early 1950s
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u/HumorPsychological60 Jul 28 '26
If you read her journals she wasn't particularly happy then either
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u/Uvtha- Jul 28 '26
Great book, but yeah, she was clearly dealing with mental health struggles her whole life.
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u/vince_vanGoNe Jul 28 '26
She was blonde?!
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u/CreepingCoins Jul 28 '26
Not naturally:
All of those [blond Sylvia Plath] photos come from a single summer—1954, Sylvia’s “platinum” summer—when she briefly died her hair lighter and posed in a white bikini top and shorts for her boyfriend. It was an act of purposeful reinvention following her 1953 annus horribilis (NYC Mademoiselle internship, first documented suicide attempt, shock therapy). Later, preparing to return to college, she dyed her hair dark again.
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u/StrippinChicken Jul 28 '26
Really underscores OP's "happier times" comment /s
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u/ErraticDragon Jul 28 '26
Actually yes. She was making an effort to reclaim her emotions from her illness. An upswing certainly counts as happier, even though it's never permanent.
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u/CreepingCoins Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Eh, I think most people, if they saw a photo of somebody smiling, would assume that the person was happy when it was taken.
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u/vince_vanGoNe Jul 28 '26
Wow. Thank you very much I never knew this. Very sad but something I know so many girls do to curb the big feelings
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u/walkstofar Jul 28 '26
I also always pictured her as a brunette in my mind.
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u/kingrobin Jul 28 '26
I pictured her to have hair as black as the darkest night
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u/WillowgirlIII Jul 28 '26
That was Ted's next wife who also offed herself. Assia Wevill.
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u/kingrobin Jul 28 '26
guy must have been a real winner
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Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
[deleted]
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u/PinkestDream Jul 29 '26
Sylvia taped the doors to make sure her children didn't inhale the gas from her suicide and left a note for the neighbors to be sure they would be looked after.
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u/cyclops_overlooks Jul 27 '26
The Bell Jar ❤️
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u/junkmeister9 Jul 28 '26
A hard read (not in the technical sense but in the sense of being an outside observer to someone's inner suffering), but a read that stays with you for the rest of your life.
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u/thirdhistorian Jul 28 '26
"To the person in the bell jar, blank and stopped as a dead baby, the world itself is a bad dream."
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u/PinkestDream Jul 29 '26
I would highly recommend her poetry (Ariel) to anyone who read the Bell Jar. Especially "Daddy" and "Lady Lazarus"
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u/Colinmacus Jul 28 '26
I wrote a much shittier book about feeling like an outsider during my college years. Then I read The Bell Jar and thought, Damn. I should've written this instead.
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u/Such_Significance905 Jul 27 '26
You would nearly want to take this photo of a happy, beautiful and smiling woman and show it to people on Instagram.
Then tell them her life story- so that they realise that photos do not equate to the whole of a human being’s experience.
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u/bringbackfuturama Jul 28 '26
oh yeah. then try the same with a photo of an ugly person with a hard life and watch nobody give a fuck
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u/girlspit Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Thank you for saying this. I’ve never understood the romanticization of her or her work.
Edit: the downvotes kind of prove my point. I know literary criticism can be emotionally taxing, so if anyone needs assistance after reading my incredibly basic opinion, let me know and I’ll send help.
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u/ritarepulsaqueen Jul 28 '26
Romanization of her work? It's appreciated by it's content. Why does romanization even mean?
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u/CurrencyKooky3797 Jul 28 '26
she was a proper racist in a way that was not common for her area and the it showed in the bell jar bug very few posts praising her or her work ever comment on it… that’s the definition of romanticization you know, loving something uncritically and not mentioning the issues with it. It’s quite literally romanticization, especially now that we’ve gotten to a point where or we’ve always been at a point where people don’t even know that including you I guess or maybe you don’t care I don’t know.
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u/Jesus_of_Redditeth Aug 01 '26
that’s the definition of romanticization you know, loving something uncritically and not mentioning the issues with it.
"Romanization of her work? It's appreciated by it's content. Why does romanization even mean?"
Clearly, they didn't realize that OP meant romanticization. They likely read the original version of OP's post while you read the edited one.
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u/girlspit Aug 01 '26
Oh, I just saw this one. I didn’t misspell romanticization. That was your fellow literary critic all on their own. The only thing I edited was adding everything after “edit:”.
Also, I noticed your second reply to me got removed by a mod. Rough night.
Any other L’s you want to take, or are we done here?
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u/winterberryred Jul 28 '26
She was. I like The Bell Jar, and think it’s an important work of literature, but the character of Esther is not particularly sympathetic.
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u/girlspit Jul 28 '26
It’s my opinion. The downvotes alone are kind of proving my point. “Romanticization” doesn’t mean “people appreciate her writing”…it means elevating someone or something beyond reasonable criticism.
Looking at these comments…I’d say that’s exactly what’s happening. I’ve never connected with her work or found it especially impactful. If reading criticism of Sylvia Plath is causing distress, let me know and I’ll call 911.
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u/lauraloomerisacunt Jul 28 '26
This is a wild ass comment and also not what romanticizing means.
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u/Jesus_of_Redditeth Aug 01 '26
Believing in or presenting an unrealistically idealized version of something or someone, which is what romanticizing is, inherently involves elevating them beyond reasonable criticism.
So, "elevating someone or something beyond reasonable criticism" is an element of romanticization but not the entire thing.
You're being pedantic.
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u/lauraloomerisacunt Aug 01 '26
Yes, crazy how language matters in writing.
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u/girlspit Aug 01 '26
Ah, so we’ve reached the “technically…” stage of the conversation 😂😂😂 I fucking love Reddit.
Glad we agree language matters. That’s why “not the entire definition” isn’t the same as “not the definition”💡🌟
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u/lauraloomerisacunt Aug 01 '26
Infallible, unassailable, beyond reproach, and sacrosanct all mean that, but glamorize does not.
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u/girlspit Jul 28 '26
I’m curious: which part is “wild”? Not connecting with her work? Thinking she’s romanticized? Or making a joke about the reaction? Be specific.
Then tell me what you think romanticizing means. I’m using the dictionary definition of idealizing someone beyond reasonable criticism. If your objection is that Plath isn’t romanticized, say that instead.
It’s okay, I’ll hold your hand. We can process this together.
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u/mrsirsouth Jul 28 '26
I recall a story here on Reddit a few years back. It's recounted as the brother telling the story and listening.
Daughter was getting emotional and was in a fight with a couple of friends and going through dark times and listened to Billie eilish to get her through it because "Billie knows".
The dad offered to listen to see if he could offer any advice.
Daughter threw it back in his face, upset that he thinks he could ever understand what it could be like. Dad just says sorry.
Brother starts to "narrate". My sister didn't think my dad could possibly have any insight to going through dark times... He's just a guy that lost friends to war, lost a brother to cancer, gone through divorce due to wife cheating, struggled with alcoholism and finally being able to manage it.
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u/Jesus_of_Redditeth Aug 01 '26
the downvotes kind of prove my point
They don't though. You've just decided in advance that everyone who downvotes you must be wrong, therefore the more downvotes you get, the more right you believe you are.
But in reality, everyone who downvotes you has their own reason for doing so. Sometimes that reason is simply that a post expresses a trite viewpoint that adds nothing useful to the conversation.
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u/girlspit Aug 01 '26
Holy shit, you’re serious. Imagine thinking you’ve “debunked” someone’s personal taste in literature. There isn’t a “right” or “wrong” answer to whether I enjoy Sylvia Plath’s work.
“The downvotes don’t prove your point”. Riveting. You really dusted off a four day old comment because this was the response burning a hole in your pocket? Edgelord Supreme.
How do those reheated nachos taste? Feel better now that you’ve shared your opinion about…my opinion?
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u/NessieReddit Jul 28 '26
I mean, she wrote in The Bell Jar that she hadn't been happy since she was 9 years old.
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u/AlbertTheHorse Jul 28 '26
Unpopular opinion, but her husband was a toxic force as well. I think we are more enlightened now than when I read her work and biography back in the 80s.
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u/transemacabre Jul 28 '26
The next woman after Plath killed herself, too, along with the child she had with Ted Hughes. I’m not saying it was all his fault, but if two different women kill themselves while in relationships with you, well…
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u/Technical_Fix_3110 Jul 28 '26
If I’m not mistaken I believe his second wife died in the same exact way as Sylvia. Baby and her with the oven door open
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u/grumblebuzz Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
I don’t think this opinion is too unpopular now. Her husband was the source of most of Sylvia’s late-life misery, or at least a large trigger for it.
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u/Over_Town_9026 Jul 28 '26
“ Plath's mother said she witnessed Hughes attempt to strangle Plath on their honeymoon in Benidorm, Spain.”
“ Letters written by Plath between 18 February 1960 and 4 February 1963, unseen until 2017, accuse Hughes of physically abusing her, including an incident two days before she miscarried their second child in 1961.”
All of this sounds like a mess (who brings their mom on their honeymoon?) but if someone tries to strangle you or hurt you in any way esp in front of your own family GET OUT. That’s a bad person and they’re looking for someone whose own family won’t defend them.
He was a very bad guy. I cannot believe he was made poet laureate after all of this. People may complain about cancel culture but why was this a-hole writing & broadcasting for the BBC? Then poet laureate? There was no one who didn’t commit felony assault angainst their spouse? Unreal.
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u/bishop491 Jul 28 '26
I wrote a paper in grad school that was expanded and published in Lifewriting Annual about Plath and Hughes. After her death Hughes continued to control the narrative through his overly protective sister. He was a horrible person, and Plath did not deserve what she had to endure.
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u/WeirdoWeeb648 Jul 28 '26
The patriarchy protects men like him all the time. It's actually not so surprising, just disappointing and abhorrent.
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u/Sylvia_Platypus Jul 28 '26
I hate him for destroying her work/journals after her death. I also hate him for being a horrible human being in general, of course.
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u/nightglitter89x Jul 28 '26
A biography called Red Comet was recently published about her life. It's giant and thorough and fascinating.
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u/serenity1989 Jul 28 '26
I loved Red comet! I knew nothing about her, and it was fascinating. I don’t think Ted Hughes was awful. I think they were very ambitious, complicated people who did truly love each other, but it eventually became toxic.
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u/slimegoob Jul 28 '26
Whats weirder is they died in the same manner. By sticking their heads in the oven. I honestly dont know the cases but its very clearly linked to him
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u/Komatoasty Jul 28 '26
Assia Wevill was, imo, obsessed with Sylvia. Its no coincidence she chose the same method of suicide.
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u/Jesus_of_Redditeth Aug 01 '26
She also murdered their daughter before taking her life, which lies in stark contrast to the way Plath herself took careful steps to keep her own children safe when she ended hers.
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u/AlbertTheHorse Jul 28 '26
Damn. I did not know that.
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u/slimegoob Jul 28 '26
Not saying he’s a killer but its definitely one hell of a coincidence ! But im assuming police looked into it at least, but like i said i haven’t looked into it. Hopefully someone with more info will reply
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u/Vinnie_Vegas Jul 28 '26
its definitely one hell of a coincidence
I mean, it probably isn't a coincidence - It wouldn't be crazy for the method to be copied after wife 2 heard about how wife 1 died.
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u/slimegoob Jul 28 '26
That was my first thought upon hearing about the second wife. It was only a year or so later i believe. So perhaps there was some weird competition very strange nonetheless
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u/Komatoasty Jul 29 '26
Assia met Sylvia and her husband Ted Hughes when they were all married. Ted and Assia began an affair. When Sylvia committed suicide like, less than a year after the affair started and Ted Left Sylvia for Assia, Assia began to use lots of Sylvia's things and supposedly became obsessed with Sylvia. Ted was also overcome by Sylvia's death.
For all the conjecture, speculation based on poetry, narratives, etc. I personally will always think poorly of Assia and Ted.
Assia for killing her 4 year old daughter along with her, whereas Sylvia took every precaution to keep her children safe, Assia for taking up an affair with a married man/her friends husband, and Ted most of all. Ted for stringing these women along, cheating, severe emotional and physical abuse, etc. He is scum.
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u/slimegoob Jul 29 '26
Omg youre so right i forgot THATS HOW IT HAPPENED i forgot some of the most damning parts jeez yah it honestly does get worse. Ugh thanks for the reply
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u/starsbitches Jul 28 '26
This is literally like the most commonly held opinion about Ted Hughes. It’s a VERY popular opinion lol.
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u/vftgurl123 Jul 28 '26
she was probably suicidal here too. she had chronic severe mental illness
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u/junkmeister9 Jul 28 '26
Even severe depression does not alone define someone. It's dehumanizing to reduce her to a singular struggle and not recognize that her life had joy and beauty too.
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u/vftgurl123 Jul 28 '26
how is it dehumanizing to acknowledge that a smiling face does not always mean a person is happy?
mental health awareness is important. i was only commenting on something that was likely true for her and many others.
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u/CurrencyKooky3797 Jul 28 '26
She had journals. also, the life of a chronically depressed person without appropriate treatment quite literally lacks joy. That’s kind of the whole thing…. Everyone’s life has some joy and beauty.. I feel like she was pretty clear about the fact that her life did not have a lot of it. I also don’t know if you know what dehumanizing means. Nothing about this diminishes her humanity in any way. I also don’t know if you need to point out the fact that she had joy and beauty in her life. Just because that’s important to you and you don’t like the idea of someone being defined by the mental illness that they wrote about extensively, doesn’t mean you should minimize her work and the personhood that she shared with the world for… I don’t even know what. it just seems like you think being chronically, depressed is dehumanizing. The depression certainly is. someone coming to say make sure to mention the good times certainly might be. Just because you’re uncomfortable with her being defined by that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing.
Also, as people who suffer with chronic depression and suicidality would tell you, saying don’t focus on the ever present huge part of her life that literally killed her, bring up the joy and beauty is actually a bit fucked up. I would say it’s the mindset of someone who has either become able to manage their mental illness or has never experienced it would say. When you’re plagued by it, it gets really fucked up when people say look at the bright side, which is essentially what you’re saying about someone who literally killed themself because of the lack thereof. Not liking the way someone is characterized does not dehumanization make.
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u/haruku63 Jul 28 '26
Poster of a German campaign on depression.
Steffen is depressive
This is Steffen
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u/JessyKenning Jul 28 '26
Herr God, Her lucifer beware beware. Out of the ash I rise with my red hair, and I eat men like air.
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u/WeNotAmBeIs Jul 28 '26
Dying is an art, like everything else I do it exceptionally well.
(This was the first thing I ever read that moved me to tears as a 13 year old)
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u/Artistic_Panda_7542 Jul 28 '26
Got a chance to view some of her hand drawn fashion design drawings when Indiana University had them on hand in their rare manuscript library. Very cool
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u/cerberus00 Jul 28 '26
I took a writing class and the teacher would go over a lot of poetry and would gush about Plath, but after reading a bunch of her poems, I just felt uncomfortable. I just felt like I was a voyeur into a disturbed woman's mind, I didn't find any of it particularly moving or wish to read it again. I wish it was easier for people like her to get help in that time period.
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u/HFentonMudd Jul 28 '26
I knew many girls in college who just idolized her. All I could think was she wasn't someone to idolize.
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u/Travelgrrl Jul 28 '26
That was in her college "Blonde Bombshell" era. Later to be replaced by her "Bee Keeping" era, and that's when things went south real fast.
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u/kingrobin Jul 28 '26
she had a failed suicide attempt in college so I don't know that those were much better times for her
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u/Travelgrrl Jul 28 '26
No, and I didn't mean to indicate by "Blonde Bombshell" that it was a happy time. She put enormous pressure on herself, the internship for Mademoiselle, and socially at Smith. (Academically of course she was fine.) The bleached hair was part of her struggle to fit in and be a sunny coed.
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u/WillowgirlIII Jul 28 '26
Tried to be a tradwife but her hubby was a turd.
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u/Travelgrrl Jul 28 '26
Yes, the woman he was with at the time of Plath's death also killed herself in the same way a few years later.
But it's funny, I just finished a biography of George VI and the Queen Mother and they said that Hughes was a great friend of the Queen Mother's in her old age. Which surprised me - but I guess I trust that old dame's intuition.
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u/SebasChua Jul 28 '26
Whenever I relate too much to her poetry, I remind myself she stuck her head in an oven to end it all.
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u/trubbelnarkomanen Jul 28 '26
Not sure black folks would agree with that statement. Or gays, Eastern Europeans, or anyone in the developing world for that matter.
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u/BrookeSmith01 Jul 31 '26
It's the fact that I had to scroll so far down before coming to a reply that even remotely touched on this. I guess I shouldn't be surprised 🙃
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u/Vidasus18 Jul 28 '26
Oh wow I never knew she was so beautiful. Had to read her poetry in literature class in high school.
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u/LyttleRedWritingHood Jul 29 '26
Many of us know how to look the part, because people are not genuinely ready to receive someone who is desperately unhappy. You get tired of answering that question “How are you?” honestly so many times, just to see the regret of people having asked you in the first place when you tell them the truth.
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u/NoContextCarl 29d ago
So sad to see a person seemingly struggle their whole life. She tried to remain creative, healthy and happy and it just never worked.
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u/LiquidDreamtime Jul 28 '26
“The 1950’s were a happier time!” -White Men
“This is hell on earth and I’m an object thats oppressed by white men.” -Everyone else
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u/Fluffy_Town Jul 28 '26
Weird...I thought she was in the 1800s, not mid-1900s. Never really read anything of hers, only known her famous name.
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u/Beanbag141 Jul 28 '26
Bruh happier for who? As a woman I like being able to open my own bank account.
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u/RigamortisRooster Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
50's the world was in ruins
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u/magicalcoochie Jul 28 '26
How???
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u/dicklaurent97 Jul 28 '26
Economy
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u/magicalcoochie Jul 28 '26
The economy in the 50s was booming. America never had it so good. Do you people even read?
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u/RigamortisRooster Jul 28 '26
Was booming because everyone else was blown up and rebuilding.
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u/Jaded-Juggernaut-244 Jul 28 '26
Canada was booming too. My parents said the 50's were awesome. Best days of their lives.
Perspective is everything. I guess if your country was bombed to oblivion in WW2 times would be hard. Bad people suck. Good people need to put bad people down. That's life.
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u/magicalcoochie Jul 28 '26
Other countries have zero to do with this. Our economy was booming. Pent up demand, babies everywhere. What is your malfunction? Our economic boom has nothing to do with any other country. Whats wrong with you, seriously?
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u/RigamortisRooster Jul 28 '26
It boom because there wasnt any competition. Our industrial might won the war and then boom our economy after because are factories werent blown up
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u/magicalcoochie Jul 28 '26
You keep saying the same thing, are you ok? Someone said the 50s sucked and you crawled out from your rock to make up a narrative about why they were booming. This post is about an American in America during the 50s, when things were amazing. Wtf are you going on about?
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide Jul 28 '26
This may not be happier times at all.