r/news • u/polymute • 5h ago
Florida bans Flock cameras and other license plate readers from state highways
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/florida-bans-flock-license-plate-readers-state-highways-rcna595420670
u/PleaseHelpFlorida 5h ago
This doesn't stop the cities from putting them on literally every intersection.
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u/Swordsandarmor22 5h ago
Random fun fact warrior 6 sawzall is 24 bucks at harbor freight 150 if you want a nicer home depot model
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u/blockedcontractor 5h ago
M12 Hackzall is very lightweight and efficient. Combine with a carbide blade, and it’s like a hot knife through butter.
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u/CrapIsMyBreadNButter 4h ago
Get Diablo blades. They're the best blades. Although circular saws are faster at cutting through aluminum pipe. The maintence staff at my job only use circular saws when cutting aluminum pipe for heavier duty conduit.
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u/SimmeringGiblets 3h ago
that's only if you can do it safely on a workbench, to safely remove aluminum pipe installed on your own property that you have rights to cut down, an angle grinder is almost as fast, but way less awkward and much safer.
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u/frankentriple 4h ago
See youd think l that would be best but for hollow pipes its faster to use a skillsaw and walk around the pole like this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18V-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-6-1-2-in-Circular-Saw-Tool-Only-2630-20/202196549
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u/mycitymycitynyv 4h ago
I use an 18V version of these for work and I can confirm these are the most comfortable for using one-handed.
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u/Character_Bug_1862 4h ago
Aviation snips on the bands holding them up is cheaper and just as affective. I can attest that the installers use aviation snips to cut the bands to size just FYI. Again, aviation snips.
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u/MickeyMoist 4h ago
You’d need a ladder to reach them
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u/Character_Bug_1862 3h ago
There are several locations around me that aren’t very high at all. But yeah might need to do a quick jump and hug to cut em, but aviation snips make the bands butter. Or a step ladder makes things easier for sure on those higher up ones or the ones on telephone poles covered in nails.
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u/iissmarter 2h ago
bonus points if you use the tool you bought at home depot, in the home depot parking lot. Gotta test it out, you know.
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u/upnorthnathan 3h ago
most of the cameras in my city are all on light poles and traffic poles, theres very few that live on their own poles.
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u/clashrendar 3h ago
Some loose wet toilet paper and a good aim to hit and cover the lenses can also be effective. That stuff will stick to just about any surface and stay as I learned in college...
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u/PmUrBoobiesOrBooty 3h ago
Angle grinder is what I'd go with. I personally have the milwaukee m18 grinder for work, and that thing is a beast.
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u/ghostly5150 2h ago
https://youtu.be/aAc3Kq0bFPs?is=xOPvYuAOaAfCjyyG
Sawzalls take too long, a circular saw is what you want whenever you come accross an aluminium pipe you need cut at work.
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u/LOTRfreak101 4h ago
I hear that you can easily and cheaply buy laser pointers strong enough to ruin the camera and then you don't have to get close enough to have your face on camera, especially since some places have put uo cameras to watch the flock cameras.
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u/Drathamus 3h ago
That doesn't actually work unfortunately. Think it was propaganda in favor of protecting the cameras. You'd definitely have to get close enough, steady enough, and for long enough for those laser pointers to really do anything. Way quicker to cut down aluminum piping.
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u/MarieOMaryln 3h ago
Hornet spray has a pretty nice stream to it. Good distance to keep you safe from angry wasps and hornets. Foam lasts a bit so the bugs gets stuck in it.
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u/Radioman96p71 3h ago
a 2W IR laser emitter will absolutely smoke that sensor in less than a second. Any more and you'll burn a hole right thru it.
Allegedly.
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u/LOTRfreak101 3h ago
That said, if you do see sone one go that route (no you didn't), it means they are leaving the large amounts of gold and copper in the camera if they don't take it.
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u/TOEMEIST 3h ago
Not the ones you use to play with your cat, he’s talking about the ones that will instantly blind you if a stray beam hits your eye.
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u/UpvoteForLuck 4h ago
Not long ago the state threatened to pull funding for any roads that had colored crosswalks on them, and threatened to correct it themselves, whether it was a state road or not.
Sounds like if the state really wanted to, it could do the same for these cameras.
Now that would be something extremely popular with people.
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u/Arctic_Chilean 5h ago
Or an alternative company (Axon) from installing their own.
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u/ctgnath 5h ago
The law is blanketed to all similar products. Not just Flock.
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u/FormerlyGruntled 4h ago
Since when do republicans give a flying fuck about the law?
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u/thejawa 4h ago
Since it caught on in Conservative circles that this was government over reach. Now they're all scrambling to get rid of them all before midterms.
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u/hakenwithbacon 4h ago
Seems like a marketing problem. They should position this as visual aids for ICE enforcement and they will all cheer for it
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u/thejawa 4h ago
Flock does a great job with that, but the kicker is that it's a 3rd party entity who has the ability to sell your data to whoever wants to buy it.
If it was a government entity operating these, I'm fairly confident they'd be cheering them.
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u/hurtfulproduct 4h ago
This and data centers are two things everyone seems to be united in their hate for, so it’s promising
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u/Superbunzil 5h ago
Also there can be "company cars" for Flock cams mounted to a commercial vehicle that take routine routes or even subbed out to someone doing it as a gig job
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u/Longjumping_Fun2576 5h ago
Not to mention, every highway in Florida has "Pay by plate" cameras.
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u/t-mille 5h ago
Yeah they say this, but watch the cameras stay up and collect data anyway. I'll believe it when they're dismantled.
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u/usernamedenied 4h ago
They will remove the road cameras sure, but they didn't say anything about the drones
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u/Consistent-Throat130 3h ago
Do they have a contract with Persistent Surveillance Systems gigapixel airborne cameras? Because that's also an automated stalking system...
Not quite drones (as far as I know) but really overlaps in domain with the Flock database
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u/FalseBuddha 2h ago
They also didn't say anything about Axios cameras or any other similar camera that would do functionally the same thing without the marketing nightmare that Flock has become. They won't stop doing it, they'll just slap a different logo on it.
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u/MatiasGonzalo-Duarte 1h ago
The order seems pretty serious. "Remove them or we will"
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u/Hondalol1 3h ago
Rumor has it they are bringing in another company to handle this
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u/Broad-Celebration- 3h ago
Rumor from whom? It's a blanket order by the FDOT.
Who made/ maintains the cameras is irrelevant.
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u/fireeight 5h ago
All they have to do is install more at the end of onramps/offramp, and they can track you just as effectively.
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u/No-Permit-9331 5h ago
That must be why they are pointing the cameras into neighborhoods and yards. That is way more important
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u/bjones214 4h ago
I pointed one out to my wife just the other day. It’s pointed down a dead end street where there can’t be more than 4 houses. I can’t fathom any good faith or non-malicious reason for it.
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u/justagenericname213 4h ago
They can (and highway cams do sometimes) track your time and average your speed to figure out if you are speeding. During a given stretch. Even if the cameras only catch you going 5 under directly
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u/Serpentongue 5h ago
Only state roads, this just means they’re going to double up on local, city, and municipal roads.
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u/thejawa 4h ago
At least in Brevard County, the Sheriff immediately shut down those owned and operated by the Sheriff department and claims they will not access the Flock systems operated by other entities. He piggy backed off RonnyD's decision within hours.
Once Conservatives started getting up in arms about ALPRs, things started to move quick.
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u/Serpentongue 4h ago
Pasco had already signed contracts switching to Axon, confirmed by Sheriff Nocco last week
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u/Dwestmor1007 4h ago edited 4h ago
Yup. We will start seeing this a LOT in the coming weeks/months. The name "Flock Camera" now has a TON of negative press/public opinion is very unfavorable towards them however: 1.) most of these "do Good"-er Sherrif's and politicians have ZERO PROBLEM morally or ethically with the CONCEPT of a Flock camera, but rather want to be associated with the public perception of rejecting them/standing up to them and "protecting citizen privacy". These guys really often WANT what flock offers them and it is why they became as ubiquitous as quickly as they did to that point that even TINY towns have one or two now. So now that press is so negative on them these guys will publicly denounce "Flock" with one arm while embracing the alternatives like Axon who do the EXACT SAME THING with the other all while simultaneously there is the issue of 2.) Unfortunately a LOT of citizens are just fucking DUMB. They have heard "Flock Bad...boo take privacy" and that is about the extent of their understanding. They don't REALLY understand WHY Flock cameras are bad and what makes them a unique threat to personal privacy and civil liberties, they just know that they DO pose a threat to it. So, when some jackass Sherrif goes "I am banning Flock Cameras...We are gonna use Axon instead because I value the privacy of my citizens" they cheer and move on with their lives while thinking "wow we should reelect that guy, he really cares".
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u/lolwally 3h ago
I believe Nocco reversed pretty quickly. He said they were terminating the Flock contract thinking people only had an issue with Flock, but quickly saw that people hate all of them. A majority of the county commission said they were against them and could have banned them pretty easily and were probably poised to. Nocco took the easy W and terminated the contract for fixed pole cameras with Axon.
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u/thisisredlitre 5h ago
It sounds like they only care because this would impact their highway patrol's income and operations.
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u/TheSamurabbi 4h ago
Jacksonville has just voluntarily agreed to do the same, due to public pressure
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u/lostroadrunner22 5h ago
Your turn, California. Pitter fucking patter.
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u/ohlookahipster 4h ago
You would think Newsom would immediately shut down Flock as a violation of CCPA. But no, apparently aftermarket tires are more important lmao.
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u/onwisconsin1 1h ago
Newsome is as corporate as they come. If someone will line his or his families pockets now or down the line. He will betray any semblance of progressivism for his personal gain.
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u/StuffedFalafels 4h ago
Florida isn’t banning because they care about your privacy lol
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u/lostroadrunner22 4h ago
Oh I know.. they are banning them due to the number of axes and chainsaws and Florida Men
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u/Meleagros 1h ago
Big Tech is likely one of the major players accessing and abusing all those flock cameras
For being the Tech state, California has no real agencies or agendas for tech regulation, it's in Tech's pocket.
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u/Yammyohnine 5h ago
I feel like highways are the least invasive place they can be though.
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u/onwisconsin1 1h ago
Im my state, the local authorities use flock to track people using the highway to a nearby state where they use the fact that you traveled to the other state, simply because that state has legal weed- they can now stop you on suspicion of possession.
They need to be destroyed everywhere.
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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 4h ago
Why did you install them to begin with, Florida, if sovereignty and quality of life were important?
Oh, is it an election year, and Flock is suddenly toxic compared to a year ago, and these will go right back from a different company next year? I bet it is.
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u/iceman2kx 4h ago
Because they weren’t banned before and were allowed to put them up?
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u/floodcontrol 3h ago
DUDE the STATE of FLORIDA SPENT $30 Million putting them UP!
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u/iceman2kx 3h ago
You guys refer to “Florida” is one person and not thousands of thousands of different people and agencies doing pretty much whatever they want because they’re allowed to. It was allowed before correct? And it’s not allowed now?
What exactly is your preferred outcome here?
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u/floodcontrol 2h ago
I don't think it was a bunch of random agencies/individuals putting up cameras on STATE HIGHWAYS.
It was the agency that is responsible for running STATE HIGHWAYS, FDOT, which is directly overseen by the Florida government.
Also, the "ban" only applies to State Highways, it's not like the Florida government is actually banning them statewide, or even on all state roads, just state highways.
If someone CAUSES a problem in the first place, why would you give them credit and the benefit of the doubt, when they pretend to fix it?
They literally put up the cameras, they see it's unpopular, they pretend to take them down bleating about "sovereignty and privacy", and then put them back up after the election. Refusing to acknowledge that this is pure manipulation and propaganda is just crazy yet that's what you are doing! Acting like the state is making a stand against a bunch of random people who were just doing something because they could. This was state policy, and now they pretend like it wasn't!
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u/MichaelHunt009 4h ago
Now, can we please stop talking about 10 million dollars "misappropriated" from children's healthcare to the Hope Florida Foundation?
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u/KopOut 4h ago
Timing reeks of "Everybody forget all about the $10 million in taxpayer money we funneled through Hope Florida into GOP political slush funds!"
For those unaware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Florida_scandal
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u/Bart_Yellowbeard 5h ago
DeSantis actually did something that wasn't evil or self-serving ... entirely.
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u/Punch_A_Police_Horse 5h ago
As someone pointed out it's only state highways, meaning they're still all over the streets. So, seems like it's a pretty cynical empty gesture.
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u/Eagle4317 5h ago
It’s a small step in the right direction that requires further follow through
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u/thejawa 4h ago
Others are definitely following through. My City Council here in Florida added a discussion item to the agenda this Thursday about ALPRs and I suspect change is coming.
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u/Punch_A_Police_Horse 5h ago
I'm not holding my breath.
Prove me wrong, Florida, prove me wrong!
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u/Obversa 2h ago
Steven Meiner, the mayor of Miami Beach, already vowed to fight the new Flock camera ban in court.
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u/MatiasGonzalo-Duarte 1h ago
I mean, I think it's all they really would have authority to do without a full law and the process that entails
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u/russiangerman 4h ago
Doubt. I'd believe that if it was another state maybe. But realistically this is probably still evil and self serving, we just don't know how yet. People like desantis don't change, they're trash thru and thru
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u/jairumaximus 3h ago
My local city was complaining about not having money for firefighters the other day. We had a fire and there weren't enough firefighters to respond. Well I posted a screen shot of the hundreds of flock cameras we have in town and was like well no money for firefighters but plenty of money for surveillance.
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u/gunmedic15 3h ago
My local Sheriff had a pretty angry Facebook post about it and how it would be so much harder to solve crimes. Posted a list of crimes already solved, etc. Seems like they aren't happy they can't look at their ol lady's plates anymore.
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u/WhyKissAMasochist 4h ago edited 4h ago
Notice how it’s just highways. They will have them lining every on/off ramp and every city.
Still, this move is a sign they are absolutely terrified about midterms! Conservatives & the elites absolutely love mass surveillance, they just usually call it “law&order” or national security. So while it’s kind of an empty gesture, it’s still a good sign.
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u/Broad-Celebration- 3h ago
It's just highways because that is what the FDOT has control over. You are always subject to your local city/ county decisions on cameras.
Many local municipalities are following suit and having cameras removed.
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u/Yoghurteffect5878 3h ago
Banning them on highways is fine and all but I feel like they're more of a problem in towns and neighborhoods since they can then be used to track you right to your home or street.
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u/Broad-Celebration- 2h ago
Towns are in charge of their own roads and can do what they want regarding cameras. Gotta get involved locally if you care to address it.
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u/TralfamadorianZoo 3h ago
98% of the cameras are on local roads not state. Florida towns and police departments approved, purchased, and installed thousands of these. Republican sheriffs and town councils love them.
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u/bradd_pit 2h ago
Wild how all it took was a little push back from a broad swath of society and the state government caved. We should apply that to other things too
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u/SkunkMonkey 2h ago
They're switching to the new Herd camera system instead. Then when that gets a bad rap, it'll be replaced with Gaggle cameras.
Won't be long before we get a Murder of cameras.
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u/CardinalOfNYC 2h ago
Looks like flock is fucked.
If Florida is banning them, it means the whole nation is actually united on this one.
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u/No-Permit-9331 1h ago
This was an issue in Arizona a number of years ago.
To the point, a coworker wore a monkey costume/ape head, and sped on the freeways. He was a legend, until he got caught! The cameras came down. Even politicians don’t want to be followed! People will hack the systems and use them for even more nefarious reasons! They just need to go!!
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u/jeetah 1h ago
I did not expect this in Florida, maybe the Epstein class wanted them gone.
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u/Poppunknerd182 3h ago
Wow, Florida actually doing something decent?
What year is it?
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u/HereInTheCut 5h ago
DeSantis with more performative bullshit like the rest of the state isn't going to be lined with cameras.
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u/MatiasGonzalo-Duarte 1h ago
Look fuck DeSantis but it's insane to not think this is objectively a good thing
State property is really all the authority he'd have to remove them. The rest will require a full law which will take a while.
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u/bugabooandtwo 5h ago
Funny enough, the only place they should be, is on highways. And just aimed at the traffic on the highways.
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u/flatline000 5h ago
Our mayor explained that we have cameras looking at plates of all cars entering our town. He says their primary use is flagging vehicles that have been reported stolen.
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u/Dwestmor1007 3h ago
And it's a BULLSHIT excuse for violating the right to privacy that EVERY citizen has. We don't violate the rights of EVERYONE just because SOME people are criminals.
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u/Flymia 2h ago
A license plate is not privacy. Using the data for non-criminal matters is the violation.
I don't like the flock cameras and facial recognition. But a simple LPR is basic. It takes the plate, if it pings as stolen or an issue it pings the police dept. If there is a crime, they can see if a ping occurred with a known or wanted vehicle/plate.
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u/ManiacalShen 3h ago
This is part of what makes the Flock issue so fascinating to me. Like, we already had plate readers for reasons like that--stolen cars, kidnappings/fugitives, expired plates, snagging people with warrants. Lots of people don't love it, but as far as controversies go, it has never been the biggest.
Plus, cops have long been able to set up video surveillance with a warrant, I think. Private and public CCTV have existed for a long time.
But somehow Flock has pissed absolutely everyone off because of the scale and the way it's being used. HOAs and municipalities aiming them in wholly inappropriate directions, law enforcement over-relying on shoddy output...
Like, there were norms and laws in this space, but key people forgot things like "everyone has a right to privacy in their curtilage" and went wild.
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u/Flymia 2h ago
But somehow Flock has pissed absolutely everyone off because of the scale and the way it's being used. HOAs and municipalities aiming them in wholly inappropriate directions, law enforcement over-relying on shoddy output...
Bingo. An LPR setting out a ping for a stolen car or kidnapped child is NOT controversial. Now system wide we will have less tools to find a missing child or wanted murder because the system was abused.
Get rid of FLOCK and the abuse, don't get rid of the tool.
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u/kpeterson159 4h ago
They need to, and more states should follow suit be banning ALL licenses plate readers; not just Flock. There is Palantir, Axon and so many more.
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u/BangerBeanzandMash 3h ago
Man I wonder what the difference in top comments would be if the headline said California instead of Florida. Pathetic per usual
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u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 3h ago
The problem is they still have them all over children's playgrounds and in front of elementary schools
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u/emefluence 3h ago
Florida? Wow! Finally something something America loathes so broadly it might be immune to this culture wars bullshit!?
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u/Cute_Bottle6346 2h ago
Hope that I can be a realist and have a realist conversation, but I have a family member that works with FDOT. When he told me about his job, it sounded like a cool thing. From what he had told me, every single mile of highway is monitored, and the role of this was legitimately for safety. If an accident occurred on the highway, it was likely that they were dispatching first responders before anybody dialed 911. It sounded like it was being used for the intended purpose, rather than a malicious surveillance tool.
Looking at the DeFlock map, it doesn't look like they were using Flock cameras on the highways, or at least not publicly.
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u/BOSS-3000 2h ago
and other license plate readers
This is incredibly important to keep other less infamous companies from swooping in.
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u/Smaynard6000 2h ago
This represents 2% of ALPRs in Florida. This is nothing but a PR stunt ahead of elections
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u/Necessary_Material40 2h ago
This is because they were finding evidence of important people with power engaging in child sex trafficking.
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u/Tazz2212 1h ago
This is just DeSantis's political theater as he tries again to run for president in 2028. Millions of people hate Flock cameras so he removes them on record and then the Republican legislature puts them back or if a Republican governor gets elected, then he puts them back. Flock cameras are too great a money maker for states and local governments.
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u/WhatAmIDoingHere05 58m ago
Democrats 🤝 Republicans
Hating on Flock
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u/NoExplanation7388 54m ago
Horse shit, republicans love this trash and they're only backpedaling because centrists dont.
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u/jckipps 5h ago
Does this include speed cameras, like are often installed in reduced-speed zones near schools?
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u/aaronhayes26 4h ago
State highways are typically the main drag through small towns. I see state routes with 25 mph speed limits all the time.
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u/PM_ME_CHIPOTLE2 5h ago
“Duck and roll, kids! I’ll pop open the trunk so that your backpacks and dioramas end up somewhere near you.”
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u/jackflash223 45m ago
If it’s only Flock branded cameras that are banned, it makes me think there is another company they are about to try and bring in to do the exact same thing behind the scenes.
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u/Monster-Zero 5h ago
When Florida is on the right side you know the world has truly gone insane
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u/Reddittee007 2h ago
Ironic.
I think highways and freeways is where these things should actually be used. It's the ones in the towns and cities interiors that need to be banned. Especially the ones looking into people's private properties.
Florida got this exactly backwards.
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u/blandman91 4h ago
Doesn't that defeat the alleged purpose? I thought they were meant to be used to more easily read/recognize a suspect car/driver via AI reading license plates and stuff? So if they aren't going to be used on the highway, what is the true purpose then?
That last question is rhetorical cause we already know their true intentions.
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u/MysteriousReaction43 4h ago
That would make it way too easy to track the politicians. The special interest groups
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u/Squeekydink 5h ago
Yo, Pflugerville Tx just did an audit and found nearly 450 agencies accessed the cameras nearly 1.6 million times over 6 months. This isn't just used by police. Another location in Texas has these cameras facing children's pools and public parks.