r/europe • u/paneuropeanism_ Europe • 12h ago
News Von der Leyen: €300 billion in European savings flown overseas every year, primarily to the US, will be invested in Europe from now on. All 27 EU states agreed to establish the S&I Union, a step toward the full Capital Market Union
https://streamable.com/4h43qk714
u/Digger2228 12h ago
And why was that amount of money leaving in the first place
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u/Moriartijs 11h ago
Europeans have huge savings, but a lot of that vmoney ends up in US capital markets because they are deeper, more liquid.
Then a promising European company needs serious growth capital. Europe cannot provide (all of its money is in USA capital market) so the company either moves to the US, lists there, or gets bought by an American company. If we think USA and EU as rivals its super absurd. Europeans send their savings to America, America turns those savings into investment capital, and then uses that capital to buy successful European companies. And every time this happens, European capital markets become a little weaker and US markets a little stronger. It is a self-reinforcing loop, and structural problem of the European economy→ More replies (33)42
u/Harbinger2001 7h ago
Try being Canada. Successful Canadian companies inevitably become American ones.
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u/Einszwo12 Germany 12h ago
Higher roi.
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u/badaharami Belgium 11h ago edited 9h ago
I mean when most people invest money they don't think first about "Oh I should think about my country's and continent's economy." They care about their own ROI first. And whatever you say US companies do have a much higher yield when it comes to ROI. Especially US tech companies. That's what capitalism does.
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u/Neat-Following6273 11h ago
But to some degree, it is a self fulfilling prophecy. There was higher ROI, because so much more money was being shoved there every year, this further increasing the price of the assets.
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u/Einszwo12 Germany 11h ago
Yes and no. The European fragmentation and regulation will always be a barrier to achieve a market size anywhere near the US despite the GDP being at 70% of the US. TO A CERTAIN EXTENT it was smart to take the ROI. However you need to still be able to support and push local investments.
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u/shovepiggyshove_ 11h ago
Let's hope this solves the other part of the equation, or at least makes it into something more tangible
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u/Einszwo12 Germany 11h ago
In my view our priorities had to change and have changed (future generations can decide if this should have happened sooner). A trade war from the west, war from the east, energy trouble and a china having to rethink their growth strategy given real estate and banking fears means you have to strengthen short term instead of thinking long term ROI.
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u/Feuerphoenix 11h ago
with a bigger market comes more economy of scale and better ROI. I think this is a good step to the right direction
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u/Edexote 11h ago
And simpler rules. Here we different rules for each member state.
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u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 11h ago
Fragmented national markets. Internal barriers in Europe.
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u/krikke_d Belgium 11h ago
every little country having their own stock market with their own rules, fees and dominant players... none of them even close to competing with US markets in size or influence...
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u/AllPintsNorth 11h ago
Just like most aspects with the EU - every country agrees that things should be unified, but that everyone else should change and do it their way.
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u/hvranic 10h ago
So EU countries are like Linux distros, while US is like Microsoft?
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u/FeineSahne6Zylinder 11h ago
No. My money is leaving because I want returns that I can’t get from European boomer companies.
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u/KTMee 10h ago edited 10h ago
This, investing is cold math. If Europe wants that money it should create conditions for our Nvidia, Apple and similar global sucesses.
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u/Nyctas Transylvania 10h ago
Conditions like having joint capital market that can actually fund them? 🤔
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u/GGBeavis 10h ago
This is precisely what they’re doing with this measure tho? If investing in EU companies is easier / beneficial for EU citizens, then more money flows into EU companies
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u/Aggressive_Chuck 10h ago
It won't make it easier to scale businesses in Europe. Not with things like the new packaging law.
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u/GGBeavis 10h ago
That’s a different problem. There are multiple problems that cause EU companies to stagnate / move to the US. Access to funds is one of them, and this proposal is a big step towards addressing it.
It’s a win that should be celebrated. Doesn’t mean the job’s done.
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u/buzziebee 10h ago
Yeah this access to funding issue is a piece of the puzzle. There's also parallel work being done to unify the business registration side of things which is beginning to be worked on with EU Inc. but it needs some more work.
This is big and complex work. It's going to take some time to get it all set up and working right. The fact that each piece of the puzzle isn't quite perfect or that the whole system isn't ideal yet isn't a reason to keep working on it and moving towards that end goal.
If those billions were invested in EU companies then there would be more investment and growth in EU companies. It's a good idea and I'm glad it's being worked on. It will take time, but we shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
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u/Illustrious-Boss9356 11h ago
Or less innovative companies and more regulatory burden?
In the Netherlands, if you found a business and file bankruptcy, you're toast.
In the US, you just start a new business.
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u/SimpleMoonFarmer 11h ago
The American economy has been growing much faster than the European since 2008.
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u/ver_million Earth 4h ago
The reaction to the 2008 crisis in the EU was putting up even more regulation and trading barriers between the EU member states. Looks like this time it's the same.
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u/JayManty Bohemia 11h ago
Because would you rather invest in a S&P 500 index fund or into a European index fund? One of the reasons why I had money in S&P500 funds (prior to 2025 as a certain orange fuckwad got into power started manipulating the market) was because the European indices were smaller and had less growth.
We need a paneuropean stock exchange. There were stocks I wanted to invest in that my broker didn't even have available because the Prague stock exchange was too small for them to bother!
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u/serpenta Upper Silesia (Poland) 11h ago
Because it's a massive market, and it's easier to invest there than to manage assets across over 30 countries. She's not talking about private investors too, but the collected mass of savings in European banks. If we create a single market of UE, potentially other European countries, creating funds consisting of European companies stocks will be both easier and cheaper.
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u/volchonok1 Estonia 11h ago
US companies generate higher profit growth thus stocks grow higher. Fairly simple. And it's not going to be solved by single capital market while European business stays conservative as it is now.
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u/oshinbruce 11h ago
Because the US has a better stock market and better return on bonds. The EU has a hodgepodge of stock markets and one of the largest left thanks to brexit. My own country ireland taxes any sort of investment that isnt property to death, so any small investment is going towards US stocks
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u/m2ilosz 11h ago
It’s easier to invest in US and it makes more money (partially because it is easier so everyone is investing there).
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u/Nyctas Transylvania 10h ago
There's too much uncertainty investing in the EU vs the US. Today we have countries discussing a joint capital market, tomorrow half of them will want out of the discussion. Other macroeconomic and political risks also work against European economies.
With the US you can rest assured that come hell or high water they will manipulate the global financial system in their favor and they are exposed to none of the risks that Europe is. Everything could go wrong for them and they would still be a global superpower at the end of the century.
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u/MrSoapbox 11h ago
All the "The US invented everything!" comments from Americans (which is already so ridiculous) is so often Europeans who got poached, or offered a much higher wage that invented, innovated etc. The amount of brilliant companies the UK had, that America buys up, often through hostile take overs is a huge problem, I assume it's the same for the EU. The "made in America" label is really just a "made elsewhere but bought up by billionaires taking the credit" label.
Long has Europe needed to counter this, Trump has done a great job of accelerating it, but now Europe needs to step up and start paying more for certain jobs, and promoting it's own software and hardware, whilst preventing US companies from buying it up once it becomes a threat to them.
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u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 11h ago edited 11h ago
European households are accumulating one of largest pools of private savings globally, holding approximately €33 trillion in total assets and adding roughly €1.4 trillion in new savings each year.
A big chunk of these capital outflows flow into US stock markets and venture capital funds, driven by deeper market liquidity, larger scale, and historically higher equity returns.
Unlike the single, integrated US financial system, European capital markets are divided across national lines with differing tax structures, insolvency laws, and financial regulations.
These European household financial assets are either flown overseas or kept in low-yield traditional bank deposits or defensive instruments rather than equity markets, limiting retail participation in local economic growth.
Letta's report on the Single Market and Draghi's report on European competitiveness identified this yearly €300 billion outflow as a critical systemic vulnerability. In response, European leaders have agreed on a unified Savings and Investments Union.
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u/No-Significance5659 ES in DE 12h ago edited 11h ago
Can someone explain this to me as if I was 8?
Edit: thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my plea. I now have a much clearer picture of what's going on.
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u/MonoMcFlury United States of America 11h ago
Imagine all 27 countries in Europe share a giant piggy bank.
Right now, adults in Europe are sending around €300 billion of their saved money across the ocean to America every year.
They do this because America has one simple system for investing money, while Europe has 27 different countries with 27 confusing sets of rules.
European leader Ursula von der Leyen and all 27 countries just agreed to team up and create the Savings & Investments Union.
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u/No-Significance5659 ES in DE 11h ago
Thank you! Super clear.
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u/Ok-Style-9734 11h ago
It unfortunately completely misrepresented the situation, people do not send their money to America over Europe because it has a simple unified system they send it because the return on their investments is much higher.
Over the last 20+ years and invest ment in the EU stoxx600 would have got you 6-7% a year the s&p500 would have got you ~12% a year
If you put 10k in both 20 years ago (ie a pension) youd have about 35k in your European investments and nearly 90k in your American investments
No one making that choice just because you made the financial system cheaper. No one is picking their pension based on nationalism either.
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u/anxiousvater 10h ago
You are largely right for retail investors but this unified market helps European startups, unicorns to easily raise capital & so on., Due to the current fragmented European markets, companies like Spotify, Biontech had to choose US markets.
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u/madd_honey 11h ago
Yeah, I don’t know, people invest in us stocks because of the growth potential that EU stocks simply don’t show or have.
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u/AG_GreenZerg 11h ago
It is circular though. Great businesses that start in the UK or Europe end up in America for better access to capital. This union will make capital easier to access in Europe so hopefully the next ARM Holdings or other tech or whatever unicorn firm stays in Europe.
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u/Aggressive_Chuck 10h ago
It's not just capital, it's easier to grow a business in America.
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u/TheMightyOne 11h ago
Yes, but it's a circular argument. EU stocks can't get big enough, because each individual market is so small.
My understanding that a super successful international EU startup will have to list in stock markets Germany, France, Spain and more. They have to comply by regulations of each country. Who would do that? You as an investor would have to buy their stock on each market as well if you want to own it all. Who would do that?
US stock market is much easier for everyone involved. If EU has one big capital market it's much easier for startups to get money and for investors to invest and because the market is much bigger so is the growth potential.
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u/buythedip0000 11h ago
Why do you think US has higher growth potential, they had flow of cash and talent. Once that tide changes the returns will be impacted. Trump is doing fantastic breaking both flow of talent and capital
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u/yellowbai 11h ago edited 11h ago
It’s more complicated than that. The banks are using our savings and investing in US bonds and securities. Also pensions. The US S&P500 has very attractive rates of return so it benefits Europeans at the cost of market liquidity in Europe.
In any case the real enabler would be a true Eurobond and the EU can issue real debt. But she doesn’t say that because Germany are absolutely opposed to it. If the EU for examples could issue 1 trillion euros in debt for capital projects it would be massive.
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u/Consistent_Sail_4812 9h ago
They do this because America has one simple system for investing money, while Europe has 27 different countries with 27 confusing sets of rules.
nah, thats not why.
real reason we invest in US markets is because their companies outperforming 99% of others.
they are generating insane profits, making investors rich.
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u/dotBombAU Australia 11h ago edited 11h ago
It’s a fairly significant piece of the EU’s attempt to make its economy function more like one enormous capital market rather than 27 financial markets awkwardly standing next to each other pretending they’re integrated.
Imagine having €50,000 in savings in Ireland. Instead of that mostly sitting in an Irish bank, the financial system could make it much easier for you to put €10,000 into a diversified EU investment account.
That money might finance a Spanish renewable-energy company, German semiconductor factory, French defence company or Polish technology business.
Multiply that across roughly 450 million Europeans and suddenly Europe has a very large domestic pool of investment capital.
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u/honkballs 8h ago
I mean, it's already incredibly easy to buy a European ETF. People aren't buying US stocks or funds because it's easier than buying a French or European one.
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u/Far_Idea9616 Hungary 11h ago edited 11h ago
EU man buy US shares. Goal: EU man buy more EU company shares.
Edit: EU woman too
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u/astral34 Italy 11h ago
lots of small pots only allow for small flowers to grow, a bigger pot allows for trees to grow
moving forward with market union is uniting our pots so that there’s more space for roots, which should attract more investments, increasing ROI
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u/Ok-Price-1157 11h ago
If I got it right, you have the financial market in the US, big, lots of money. The reason of that is because it is a market that covers all of the US.
On the other side, in Europe, each financial market is tied to its country, there is no global European financial market. Because of this, many European companies prefer registering themselves in the US market, because it is bigger and more money involved. Hence Europe loses all that money because we are not on the same level.
They are trying to correct that by creating this European financial market. It will make European companies more competitive and will keep the money in Europe. At least that's the basic idea
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u/hatecrew420 11h ago
A fully unified European capital market would pool the EU's €37 trillion in private savings into a single, seamless financial system, whereas the current system remains divided across 27 separate national borders.
How It Works Now (Fragmented)National Borders:
Capital markets are organized by country, with 27 distinct regulatory and legal systems.
High Fragmentation: Europe operates over 300 stock exchanges and relies on 52 different national supervisory authorities.
Home Bias: Investors strongly prefer keeping their money in their home countries due to differing tax codes and local insolvency laws.
Smaller Scale: Stock capitalization sits at roughly 73% of EU GDP, compared to 270% in the U.S.
Startup Drain: Innovative EU tech companies often look to U.S. venture capital or move overseas because local risk capital is too shallow.
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u/LostnFoundAgainAgain 11h ago
From my understanding the EU puts savings into the US and other foreign markets as it has a higher return on investment, they are now looking to reverse that and invest it into the EU.
This is a massive blow to the US as they are the primarily market for these investments, the issue is how the EU will get an equivalent return in the EU.
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u/tranbun 11h ago
Having money in the bank is not much better than them just laying on the shelf. Inflation makes the heap smaller and smaller. So everyone who has more money than they need for immediate next time use these money to generate more money (invest). US is the powerhouse as for each $100 it gets it returns more a year later. There may be places where you get more in a year (ROI, return on investment), but most are riskier (risk-reward).
EU wants to establish something that will return comparable amount with similar level of risk (i.e. if shit hits the fan EU will still pay the investors back). This in theory should make US capital market less desired at least for EU investors. It may also be the opposite as part of risk management is distributing it over different bins so that when EU declines US still can carry the portfolio and vice versa.
I don't know any details on actual EU plan though.
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u/yumdumpster 🇺🇸 in 🇩🇪 11h ago
Capital flight out of the EU investing in US assets and Industries. Basically individuals and institutions are investing their idle capital in the US because they think they can get higher returns there.
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u/toomucheyeliner 12h ago
Good. Europe for Europe. No point strengthening the US economy with European investments, it’s better to strengthen Europe instead.
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u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 11h ago
The situation is absurd. Europeans are financing US companies who then grow big and come to Europe to buy up our own companies. It's truly absurd and shows once again how the nation state is obsolete.
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u/toomucheyeliner 11h ago
The benefit of the trust & soft power the US cultivated for decades and the current administration has effectively dismantled across most of the world. The ripple effects of its loss will take time and develop quite subtly but the impact will be immense..
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u/Square-Chart6059 6h ago
The political framing of this is so weird. Improving the investment environment in Europe through regulatory standardization helps everyone investing in Europe including Americans looking to diversify.
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u/Upbeat_Parking_7794 11h ago
Savings flee because US market is growing more than the European.
I keep some money in ETFs 100% European, but worldwide ETFs have a small European coverage because of the company market caps. And tech where growth has been is 95% in US.
Maybe this can help market cap of European companies to grow..
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u/inboxlcs 11h ago
"Will be invested in Europe from now on."
Would that be a requirement or an invitation?
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u/mcgeezax01 11h ago
Concerning my country i'm pretty sur they are going to make it disadvantageous fiscally to invest outside the eu, they have already hinted it
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u/Vast-Palpitation-426 France 11h ago edited 10h ago
We're already doing this in France and it doesn't work.
We have access to world index ETFs in the tax wrapper if it's a synthetic ETF where the bank uses underlying European assets to replicate the index performance, but they have a scheme to sell those and buy non European stocks with the funds anyway.
And considering the huge gap there is in performance and diversification between EU only indexes and world indexes, even if they forbid the banks to propose world index ETFs in the tax wrapper, it would be better for you to just forget about the tax wrapper and pay full tax on a broker account with access to world equities.
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u/halee1 10h ago
Which is a downstream problem of the fact European capital is fragmented, the exact reality these reforms intend to change.
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u/Vast-Palpitation-426 France 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yes I'm talking about the tax incentive system. It doesn't work.
They need to actually do something to make investing in Europe attractive instead of just taxing people until the morale improves.
I think they should advertise the European market's relative stability and resilience to make the typical European, which is a very conservative person financially speaking to invest their savings into no brainer European funds.
Because if you want to optimize you will want diversification. But plenty of people wouldn't care for optimization and would just subscribe to an easy EU investment basket if it was consumer friendly and properly advertised.
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u/bozoconnors United States of America 6h ago
taxing people until the morale improves
lol - THE TAXING WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!!!
Yeah, as an American, this just seems like grandstanding for political points or something. If you want EU money to stay there, make it attractive? Hell, make it attractive to US citizens!? We've got 24 million millionaires looking to diversify internationally.
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u/Vast-Palpitation-426 France 5h ago
Well Europe is already attractive it's not black and white. During the last 5 years Stoxx Europe 600 did 10.7% annualized, and the S&P 500 12.8%. And developed Europe is already 15% of a world index (US 63%).
But capitalism being what it is, investors chase the best results, even if it's just 1%. And momentum and passive investing reinforces the inbalance. So regulations to keep capital home makes sense, but the Member States never work on fixing the European market's structure, or educating people on financial litteracy (huge deal. the amount of money sitting in saving accounts in Europe is crazy. €11.5T), all they do is hammering the middle class with constraints to just try coerce the few who decided to invest to stick to the mess they refuse to reorganize and promote.
But there are also factors we can't change. The US had a headstart and in this and will keep it.
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u/bozoconnors United States of America 4h ago
€11.5T
good lord. we could also use some standard financial literacy education here. it's totally absent. mine was via my dad and almost all self taught. pretty dumb for a country with millions of millionaires.
The US had a headstart and in this and will keep it.
I like your optimism, but we'll see. With our debt passing 40t, and no end to spending increases in sight... seemingly zero motivation for either party to at least slow it down... I don't think this is going to turn out well. For anybody on the planet. C'est la vie mon ami!
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u/GergDanger 10h ago
Yeah, is the ROI of the European stock market now going to compete with the US one to where I’ll want to switch. Or will they just tax foreign investments a ton and force me into a lower ROI stock market?
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u/L-Malvo Zeeland (Netherlands) 11h ago
I’m so curious for the Dutch plans that will be announced later today. One of the key tax proposals will completely gut private investing (higher unrealized gains tax). Which is fully contradicting what the EU aims to achieve. Interestingly, within the EU, The Netherlands is in favor of the plan outlined in this post (as am I).
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u/eror11 11h ago
If they are gonna keep pushing on companies with taxes and have a massive income tax for workers, the companies will never have a competitive ROI compared to American ones. It's a great step in the right direction, but this won't stop most of that money moving abroad. Especially if they whiff it the same as the 28th regime...
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u/TheSuggi Germany 11h ago
Talk talk talk. They have been announcing this for years and they have still not implemented this. They are not aware of the urgency. More talk and discussions coming. They needed to implement this 3 years ago and even then it would have been late.
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u/Arabum97 10h ago
3 years ago? 30 years ago this impact especially start-up and venture capital and it is one of the reason why we didn't produce strong tech players in the 90s/2000s
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u/UnapologeticMeatball Germany 11h ago
The investments in Europe should also be tax free.
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u/honkballs 8h ago edited 8h ago
See it's real things like this that would encourage people to invest in Europe more.
People in Europe aren't investing into the US because it's "easier". It's just as easy to buy a European ETF as it is a US ETF.
They do it because they expect to get better returns, simple as that.
Improve the potential returns in Europe, and people will invest more there.
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u/Odd-Future1037 Europe 10h ago
The hot stocks right now are in the US. EU industry is bogged down by high energy prices and regulations. R&D is the same way, all the AI money keeps flowing to the US because, money is like water, it follows the path of least resistance, but most don't seem to get that.
What I'd like to see is a EU-wide stock exchange where all EU companies in each country can list themselves.
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u/Subject-Lime2889 11h ago
Alright Ursula. When will you finally set up the long awaited Capital Market Union?
You've been talking about it for YEARS but so far, no concrete steps have been made into creating it. We all know Europeans shouldn't dump all their hard earned savings into the SP500 index and US stocks. That money should stay in Europe, recycled into the EU economy and support European companies. That's how the American economy thrive. It's a well known fact and it's not a secret sauce. We know it.
So once again I'm asking the question. When will you finally create the CMU? Just tell us when. Stop beating around the bush. Give us a concrete plan with an actual project with milestones and a deadline.
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u/Generic_Person_3833 11h ago
She can't just create it.
CMU cannot be made under Lisbon, she would need a unified agreement by all states, likely new EU treaties.
The issue is that we stopped reforming and developing the EU on treaty level. Maastricht and Lisbon changed a lot, but since then we gave up on it as the populations (where a public vote is necessary) kept rejecting new EU treaties. Without a new reformation process and a new treaty these are all pipedreams, just like the idea to stop unanimous voting.
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u/Navodar94 11h ago
I really wonder how they gonna force Europeans to invest here instead of US, no way they can match the ROI
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u/MrGoogle87 11h ago
Meanwhile: Theres a flat 38% tax coming on UNrealized gains, riiight… invest less
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u/Total_Wrongdoer_1535 4h ago
Yeah well start by introducing Roth IRA equivalent here in Europe, then we talk.
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u/atreeismissing 3h ago
A good move simply because at the moment and for the foreseeable future, EU economy is more stable and trustworthy than the US economy.
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u/Bloomhunger 2h ago
Get rid of the fucking fees and tax rules, for fucks sake. If it’s going to cost the same or more, people will keep pouring money into the US with its proven track record.
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u/SosoVovo 11h ago edited 9h ago
So either you remove ALL Capital Gains Tax for EU investors investing into EU stocks, thereby making their lower proportional growth to US* immaterial, or you do capital controls and forbid European capital from being invested outside of it.
Which option is Europe most likely to take, knowing their recent controlling nature?
Call me a skeptic, but I distrust 99.99% of all initiatives that emanate from this spineless leader of the EC…
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u/ATEFred 10h ago
wouldn't need to be all cap gains, even just a meaningful reduction would create incentives. Capital controls would of course be a disaster... argh, we're getting capital controls aren't we?
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u/CopperSulfateII Europe 8h ago
Europe already trends towards this. Belgium has a 16.5% additional capital gains tax if you sell your business to a non-EU acquirer.
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u/ver_million Earth 6h ago
Wait, this is completely new legislation, introduced this year? In 2026? Wtf, Belgium.
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u/ontemu 11h ago
Wouldn't need to eliminate capital gains taxes, not even close. Personally, my investments in European companies would multiply if I was offered a 1/4 or 1/3 cut in capital gains/dividend tax %.
But yeah, they'll most certainly go down the other route: penalize investments outside of EU.
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u/hiwyxx 7h ago
People invest in the US because US market performs better. How is this going to fix anything. If you want to fix it create the environment allowing European companies to grow.
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u/Watblieft 10h ago
Sounds good, I'm all for a stronger, unified Europe.
But as an investor, give me reasons to PREFER European investments instead of FORCING me to invest in them.
For example:
- Offer tax advantages for investing in European companies.
- Give tech companies a better environment in which to thrive—i.e., stop overregulating them.
- Unify Europe’s stock markets so that more companies become liquid and accessible to the average investor.
In my country, the Netherlands, they are close to completely destroying the stock market by making investors pay 36% tax on unrealized returns every year. Make sure those things cannot happen.
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u/PrinzRagoczy United Kingdom 9h ago
"Hmm, nobody is investing in our country's companies, maybe we should try to help them become more profitable"
"That sounds like hard work, let's just force people to do so instead"
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u/utsu31 6h ago
Aren't most tech companies already quite underregulated?
Like yeah they're more regulated than in the US, but that doesn't mean they're overregulated.
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u/Sarganto 11h ago
The US is an almost unbeatable machine of wealth extraction from bottom to the top. It’s hard to resist being part of the top in the equation.
Generally it’s a good idea tho
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u/Kiramisu27 10h ago
For the Dutch people, the Unrealized Capital Gains tax will fuck this up anyway...
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u/Many_Distribution701 3h ago
I can already feel the difference: instead of 80% US products in markets, I now barely see 5-10% shelves of US products. Most new products are like better, innovative EU-version of US products.
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u/Generic_Person_3833 11h ago
You won't stop me from investing in better performing markets, Ursula
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u/Fritz46 8h ago
Alright then so who will make the European windows, and who will make the GPU... Lol
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u/Ynneb82 Italy 11h ago
Hell yeah. But one thing is saying it the other is doing it. People invest in the USA because it's the strongest market in the world... If EU economy is bad, why should people invest here?
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u/Ruma-park 11h ago
Regulations. You make it more attractive to invest in European stocks.
Also the US being the strongest market is a self reinforcing state, which this savings union is trying to break.
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u/Navodar94 11h ago
Would really love it to be like that, instead they'll probably find a way to forbid you from investing in the US instead of making EU investing more attractive.
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u/Ruma-park 11h ago
I think more alongside of 401ks in the USA. You will get incentives to save longterm in the EU with tax rebates.
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u/Zedrixs 11h ago
Investing in Europe based on what returns and companies? The reason its being invested in the us is because productivity competitiveness returns etc.
Just like most major companies dont ipo or move to the us this more talk about addressing a symptom while completely ignoring the root cause.
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u/SegFaultAtLine1 11h ago
Honestly, sometimes it feels like EU countries don't want people from the EU to invest there. Let's say I buy a share in a German company. The company pays a dividend. And the insanity begins. Poland taxes dividends at 19%, there's a treaty which reduces German withholding tax to 15%. So I should pay 4% to the Polish tax office, 15% is withheld automatically, everything seems fine, right? Nope. The withheld amount is actually 26%. Polish tax office uses the treaty tax as the base, so I have to still pay 4% of Polish tax. I can technically get a refund from the Germany, but that requires sending a written form every time. Compare this to the US, where I can use a form once to get reduced WHT (15%) no need to ask for refunds. Some brokers fill out this form for you automatically.
It's even stupider when it comes to retirement accounts. Why would I invest in EU companies there, if I just get hit with extra taxes and need to study 27 tax regimes? I'm not running a family office for a billionaire, I'm just saving for retirement.
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u/toto1792 11h ago
Common financial practice is to invest passively and diversify your assets as much as possible. For the share component of your portfolio, by buying funds tracking the MSCI world (i.e. developped) or all-world (more countries).
That strategy means you send a huge part of your money overseas since the European market is small. Unbalancing your portfolio and buying more European is a choice that is not well supported in practice and will augment your volatility in the long term. Of course there will be times where Europe overperforms the US but that does not mean you should change the strategy, you have to think long term. You might think that investing so much money in the US is dangerous due to the political situation there, and that might be true to some extent, but NASDAQ/NYSE companies often address huge international markets themselves and are not fully correlated to the US situation.
Fiscal incentives might help skew the choice towards European investments so that it becomes a rational choice to invest a non-rational percentage of your savings in Europe. Otherwise, growing the EU market will mean a larger amount is directed towards EU.
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u/raitchev Bulgaria 11h ago
I will invest my money however I want. Cut the red tape, let European companies grow and investments will naturally flow to them.
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u/Dear_Blood_8872 7h ago
Trump is doing an awesome job of uniting the world, unfortunately uniting it against the US. He really is an artist of the deal🤣.
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u/NeckFederal3462 11h ago
ELI5:
Apparently, around €300 billion of European savings leaves Europe every year, with a large part ending up invested in the US.
The EU now wants to change that.
The basic idea is:
European savings → European investments → European companies
The 27 EU countries agreed to create a Savings and Investments Union (SIU), which is basically a step toward making the EU's financial markets work more like one big European market.
The goal is to make it easier for Europeans to invest across the EU and for European companies to raise money from European investors.
So this doesn't mean the EU is going to suddenly take €300 billion out of US investments.
It means they want to stop so much European money from flowing abroad in the first place, and make Europe a more attractive place for that money to be invested.
In very simple terms:
Europe has the money. Europe has the companies. The EU wants to make it easier for the two to meet.