I don’t mind Anthony Mackie as the new Captain America, but I still wish it was Bucky. I might get downvoted but Captain America should be a super soldier not someone without any kind of powers
I am against Bucky. He doesn’t have that character. But instead of John Walker getting the serum in the falcon and winter soldier series, why couldn’t they make Sam get it instead. Or maybe both idk
Yeah just because Bucky was Caps best friend doesn't mean he needs to fill his place and Sam didn't have powers while he was Captain America in the comics, and that's kind of the point.
It's still boring, at least in the MCU context. We already had Iron Man with a super gizmo suit. And Rhodey. And technically whatever Pepper is. Do we really need another?
Yup. Just because that's boring that doesn't mean having a Discount Captain America/Iron Man hybrid with none of what made those characters interesting is any better.
Sam Wilson isn't a bad character--he's got an interesting enough background and his whole pilot shtick is okay, even if it feels not different enough from Rhodey. But he sure ain't leading man material.
That actually vexed me. People are getting serums like it is in the bargain bin by the dozens and somehow they don't take that opportunity to give it to Sam. I know he has his tech but super strength on top of it wouldn't make him too OP. Felt like a waste.
Another problem with that, is in brand new day, he pulls a cinder block out of a wall using his hands, and then hits someone with it, and then 5 minutes later complains about not being a super soldier.
His lack of super strength really didn’t help in his movie where the climactic fight between him and Red Hulk wasn’t really a fight, but Mackie talking him down…because he doesn’t have the physical strength to fight like OG Cap could
Black Cap is what happens when you combine Iron Man and OG Cap but take away the tech smarts and the super strength and you’re left with the worst parts of both
Though the real reason was they were all in pretty poorly written Disney+ TV shows post Endgame when people where not as hungry for marvel content as they were in the 2010s
Ironheart and Sam Wilson's Captain America were never exactly A-listers either.
She-hulk certainly has her fans and I enjoyed some of her early 2000's comics covering the superhero laws around the time of the first Marvel Civil war.
They'd need to hire good writers that also know the law system that also know comic books. That would want to make a full season or four becauase it's Disney.
You don't need to even know the law to make a good law-based TV show, you just need to actually want to make an entertaining show and not think like a Reddit mod when it comes to the Law.
The She-Hulk writers did not meet either of these.
Didn't the writers of the She Hulk show say they knew nothing about how the law actually works? Like why even make a show about a superhero lawyer if you're not gonna bother to do the proper research on it in the first place...
Jen then breaks fourth wall of the Dick Wolf cold open and cracks a joke about smashing is unironically what she and Matt will end up doing once every episode. “And. It. Gets. Graphic.”
I feel like people's expectations of Sam's Captain America were a bit unfair. I don't think his character and movies should necessarily have to be on par with Steve's. I was just hoping for a decent Sam Captain America movie and sadly that didn't come to fruition.
Yeah the issue with the hulk is that the rights to his character and related characters are still owned by universal studios (like sony with spiderman) who won't actually allow for a solo hullk film (at least probably not without an insane amount of money) so instead they have to put him and others like red hulk as side characters in other films.
Waiting for a Marvel movie in the 2000s to the 2010s and the progression of the Avengers movies where they all came together was a totally different experience.
But post Endgame, there was suddenly a lot of content. And then the next big baddie they were working towards had to suddenly get cancelled. All the series and content we had to keep up with got a bit much
Seriously, my watch progression was Agatha > Multiverse of Madness > Wandavision, I had absolutely -zero- issues following along because Marvel content is extremely basic.
It's like when I play a Civlization game on the computer.
The first few eras are amazing: I liked the Iron Man, Thor, Captain American build up. Everything is still new. They keep releasing new content of mostly big-named characters.
The middle loses some of its lustre, but it's mostly still good because I'm still discovering new things: the Avengers movies that combined the other characters. They told some jokes that were easy to follow because there were like 5 movies.
Now, though, we're in the modern age when I know I've won but still need to play for another 3 hours because I can't automate 150 turns to get to my science victory. It's just too much boring stuff to get to the final payout. I'd rather spend the 3 hours doing something else.
A lot of them shouldn't have even been TV shows. If they had been given a movie instead, there would've been a much higher bar for writing quality and a lot of the issues around pacing and flat humor would've probably been resolved. Likewise, some of the movies just had way too much story to tell and would've been better as a show
MOM? Should've been a TV series
Iron Heart? Should've been a movie
Ms. Marvel? If it was a movie, The Marvels would've probably gotten a way better turnout
It's also probably the Disney+ show that got screwed over the most by Covid, not just with shooting issues and such, but also they re-wrote a huge section of the show last minute. Originally the bad guys were supposed to do something with a biological weapon to trigger some kind of plague, but given the global pandemic at the time, the writers thought that'd be in poor taste, so they had to change it.
People will tell you that you don’t need to watch every show to get what’s happening with the movies but I can’t imagine watching Doctor Strange:MoM without seeing Wandavision.
It’s the same reason I skipped the new Captain America because I didn’t care to watch the “Bucky and the winter soldier show”. At the same time if that had been a movie I probably would’ve watched that if for no other reason than I did like those characters and a 2 hours movie is just less of a commitment.
I liked Captain marvel but didn’t watch “the marvels” because coming of age story about a teenage girl discovering her powers across a Disney + series really doesn’t appeal to me as an adult man and I don’t know how much context they expect to bring into it.
But to be honest most of the movies I skipped because I heard they weren’t good (so yeah backs up the argument it’s bad writing)
From The First Avenger to Far From Home, I watched every MCU movie in theaters, usually opening weekend. I watched Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter, a few of the NetFlix Shows, and the pilot of Inhumans.
Then, between moving to a new house, the pandemic, and starting a new relationship, I just didn't feel like keeping up with MCU stuff. When we got Disney Plus, my now-wife wanted to check out the marvel films. So we did through Infinity War and went to go see No Way Home in theaters, but even that felt like I was missing shards of context.
So I decided to launch back in, and hoo boy. It's felt like an unpaid job at times trying to catch up. There's enough that's been enjoyable to keep me going, but the sheer breadth is wild.
In fairness, you could have watched the new Captain America without watching Falcon & The Winter Soldier because it pretty much meant nothing and left Sam right where he was when the Endgame ended: With the shield, taking Steve's place.
It was just so badly written that it made me, who thought Sam in the MCU as Captain America felt like a logical successor to Steve, shouldn't have been after all, and Bucky should have replaced him (if anyone). Truth is, neither Sebastian Stan nor Anthony Mackie carry the same gravitas as Chris Evans. At least, IMO.
i dont blame that on the actors as much as their characters and writing. Captain America is Fucking Captain America and really hung with the rest of the crew despite being a human. Falcon is a dude with wings and buckey is captain americas friend. they didnt really have a chance in replacing him.
It's possible they mean AFTER. The sheer quantity of marvel content afterwards means even if I cared enough to follow it after the saga ended I wouldn't be able to
Don't forget you needed to watch z show on Disney+ for those 2 episodes of crossover and all the context the rest of the episodes give to the crossover
It was content overload and why even now I've not fully gotten back into the MCU
This was my problem. After however long without seeing shang chi or moon knight, after finding out the blade and black knight teases were never coming, then we had thors "kid" and hercules, it just felt like there was no point in getting hyped or invested. I got burned too much
Black Knight, meant be set up in post Blade MCU (most likely scrapped until Midnight Suns post Secret Wars—- if ever)
Hercules might still happen, in a post Secret Wars MCU
My actual response:
But yes Disney Marvel went gung ho on audiences never getting enough of the MCU, but boy they did they get lazy, and forgot to keep audiences happy/interested. Franchise fatigue.
Anyone else notice that none of the new characters from the D+ shows were announced in Doomsday? It's like every plotline that developed for Kang Dynasty was completely abandoned.
That is another problem yeah, if a plot gets dropped you feel like you wasted your time catching up cuz you watched stuff in a hurry to be ready for something that never came rather than watching it whenever you felt like it cuz there was no pressure
And there's never a plan, a large multi film plan. They just let each movie/series develop on their own, and then follow up or just ignore it depending on audience response
And the CGI getting sloppier due to pace of production and budget. I don’t need to be behind on multiple poorly done superhero shows at the same time. It got to feeling like a gatcha game where you had to tune in daily just to keep up with the wave of content even if it wasn’t great. Because my time is limited and I had better shows/movie that I wanted to watch more.
The last one I watched was the Scarlett Witch tv show. It was such a cool, weird concept but as soon as it flipped the switch from the weirdness that it was into standard superhero fare it got boring.
Then the second Dr strange film flat out undid 80% of the actual character growth of the TV series. Rendering it fairly pointless. (The relevant info that was kept can be summed up in, like, a couple sentences that could have just been narrated instead.)
Yeah, I think it was Disney getting too greedy (shocker, right?). Once they started tying everything together in hope you’d have to go to every movie and as well as get a Disney subscription so you can’t sue them if your wife dies…
I'm surprised there wasn't like some fortnite crossover event that needed to be played to unluck hidden lore for the new marvel TV show in order to understand the next 3 marvel films...
It just got too frequent which made it all feel like slop.
I loved Hawkeye and Moonknight because they were largely disconnected stories that built off the established universe, that should be the formula for Marvel shows in my opinion. Just added world-building and deepening of the lore instead of trying to make everything matter to everything else
Edit: Daredevil Born Again does this well too, but I started wondering where the fuck Spider-Man was during all of it lmao
I loved Hawkeye and Moonknight because they were largely disconnected stories that built off the established universe, that should be the formula for Marvel shows in my opinion.
This formula was the exact reason (most of) the Netflix shows were successful. When those shows got the axe, I knew that was likely signaling the end of those types of self contained stories involving Marvel characters.
Daredevil and Punisher have never been my faves in the comics, but were the two shows I enjoyed the most, even more than most of the newer movies for the exact reason that they were well written and weren't trying to tie into everything else. They were just good stories driven by a smaller cast of characters.
The thing that made the big comic events like the Infinity Gauntlet and Secret Wars so great back in the day were that they were things that occurred rarely. More recently, it seems like there's some big event happening once per year and it's exhausting. I stopped reading comics because every time I turned around there was some other thing that was going to "change the Marvel Universe forever" and I just couldn't do it anymore.
The movies are following that model where there's always some big catastrophe they're building up towards. The Infinity Saga ended and before we as an audience had a chance to breathe, they started throwing Secret Invasion stuff at us.
And honestly, I wasn't even a fan of Infinity War or Endgame. I hated how they changed the entire Thanos story from the comics. No, I didn't need an exact interpretation as I know that would be impossible, but changing it from Thanos collecting the Infinity Gems himself to sending lackeys to do it for him took a lot of the wind out of the character for me. They also completely dropped the ball on Adam Warlock (one of my few critiques of the GoTG movies) and characters like Silver Surfer and Mephisto, pivotal characters in the comics story arc, were completely absent. I know in the case of SS it had to do with rights and I wouldn't have even minded so much if they'd stayed more true to some of the other elements, but all these things combined just annoyed me so much that it kind of ruined the whole experience for me.
Making Thanos some rando cosmic warlord who wanted balance in the universe was the absolute lamest motivation they could have come up with and I'll die on that hill.
Sorry, I just realized this turned into an entire rant I hadn't planned on.
TL;DR: The shows should be small, disconnected stories so we can enjoy the characters facing non-apocalyptic threats.
I had a feeling it was trying to imitate references in comics but at least the comics helped you get the reference by using these yellow text boxes "as seen in Spiderman Issue No. ___" but the movies don't even have these which I hate a lot.
Thats what really got to me. Half of one movie is the main plot line of a different heroes movie. And I liked the way Endgame ended. After that it was just an ugly money grab.
Same. I still haven’t been able to catch up on Daredevil or Punisher. I haven’t followed Echo, Secret Invasion, Agatha All Along, What If seasons 2 and 3, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, x-Men 97 and so much more.
Very few of them were dependant on eachother at all, to a fault actually. There was lots of content but even when there were connecting threads, they were handwaved away.
I think it's more that we were given too much too quickly after the infinity war saga ended. It was around then that we got a ton of TV shows added to the canon in addition to multiple movies per year. I can only speak for myself, but it was far too much for me to care to watch, especially since it felt like the main story had already ended
That’s exactly why I stopped watching, they were releasing like 3 shows at a time and a movie every couple months or so when it used to take longer from movie to movie, suddenly you had to watch it all because some stuff wouldn’t make sense in the movies if you hadn’t watched the shows, Multiverse of Madness and Wandavision for example. It got too overwhelming too fast, and it’s not like life stopped just so we could catch up with Marvel either.
Also, I feel like the Ironheart show came out of nowhere? I don’t remember seeing any announcements or trailers or anything, maybe it’s just because I stopped caring at that point, but it really felt like Disney didn’t care to do much for it (I get it’s just a show vs a movie but I swear I still see Wandavision and Agatha stuff everywhere, but no mention of Ironheart)
ETA: my family stopped watching because after the death of Tony and Natasha they just didn’t care about the others anymore
Movies:
Black Widow,
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings,
Eternals,
Spider-Man: Far From Home
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Thor: Love and Thunder
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.
Series:
WandaVision
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Loki Season 1
What If...? Season 1,
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
along with the special Werewolf by Night
Phase 5 Movies:
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
The Marvels
Deadpool & Wolverine
Captain America: Brave New World
Thunderbolts
Series:
Secret Invasion,
Loki Season 2
What If...? Season 2,
Echo,
Agatha All Along,
Eyes of Wakanda,
Daredevil: Born Again Season 1
Phase 6:
Movies & Series:
The Fantastic Four: First Steps,
Ironheart,
Wonder Man,
Daredevil: Born Again Season 2,
Spider-Man: Brand New Day,
VisionQuest
All this in 10 years, while 10 years is a lot this is also A LOT of stuff
This is what did it. That we got one Avengers movie and it was good and the movies leading up to it were good was lightning in a bottle. That they were then able to parlay that into the Infinity Saga, go all the way through to Endgame, and stick the landing is nothing short of a miracle. And they just kept chugging out movies and TV shows at breakneck pace without giving the audience any chance to sit and breath with everything that happened.
This is exactly it. Should've gone MCU silent or MCU adjacent for at least a year or two before announcing more content. Just What-If? For the fans that still want SOMETHING but let the general audience miss the content so they come back. Dont shove it down their throats until they can't consume any more
I think its a lot of things. Firstly after infinity war, most of the original casts barley makes appearances, if they character is alive. And then after infinity war they massively ramped up production, theres way more projects and they its hard to keep up with all the tv shows, like we had mcu tv shows before but they were never required viewing for the movies, now if you don't watch them you feel behind.
I also think infinity war was just the natural jumping off point for most people and Marvel/Disney clearly don't have a new idea for their next ride (i.e. series of movies)
The fatigue with the campiness of all of these movies and shows also has not been addressed. Well, and it became overwhelming to try to keep up with them all - the required watching list for Doomsday is absurd
Disney wants to make as many Marvel movies as possible but there was always a specific tempo to the marvel movies. You had 3 to 4 movies that fed into each avenger film, and that was it.
I saw someone say the MCU is now engaging in the exact problem that comics have, where there's just too much to keep up with, too many retcons and alternative universe bullshit, which is why the MCU originally saw success because they had a very narrow scope and it was easy to keep up.
When you boil it down that much, many things that are not actually similar will sound similar. It's like pointing out that because Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars (and a billion other things) all follow the Hero's Journey pattern so they're all identical. You might be technically right but anyone familiar with them can tell you that A New Hope is not actually like Fellowship of the Ring.
Ngl, Loki, Wanda and Vision and Moon Knight legitimately were great shows, I still don't understand the idea of "Pass on the torch for a new generation" no one asked for that.
I did watch WandaVision & it was fantastic, loki is the only other show I hear good things about but haven't bothered to pick it up. Never heard of moon knight before
I understand why i was confused by brave new world capt-america movie- the movie had continued off of the TV show captain America & the winter soldier i guess.
I watched it without watching Wanda vision, and I tbink its both of the most fun shows I watched in years and something people can enjoy Without any knowledge of the MCU at all.
But that said, its more something one of my queer theater friends would recommend rather than one of my comic book friends. So it might not be everyones cup of tea.
See- i was able to watch Deadpool and wolverine without feeling like I was missing apparent backstory unlike the captain American brave new world & their TV show before the movie
Until now I didn't know loki was involved with Deadpool
Moonknight is great as a standalone. Couldn't be bothered to watch more than the first season of loki, liked wandavision.
And I really liked the movies until endgame or so. But after that, after more than a decade, it just became to much. Even for me. I am just no longer interested.
After Infinity War a lot of the cast wanted a break, or to be done completely...those roles had been dominating their lives for about a decade at that point...so the problem became "How do you tell more Iron Man stories when RDJ is Iron Man and needs a vacation?".
The options were 'you don't, you go with more obscure characters instead'...which they tried, and led to such a firehose of content that it became nearly impossible to keep track of plotlines...or hand off to a 'new generation' which flopped about as hard as when the comics tried it because it turns out the person wearing the mask is more important than a specific color of spandex when it comes to getting the audience invested in a character.
They needed an out for some of those long MCU contracts, had to tackle an MCU without a Captain America, and were foaming at the mouth for the chance to an All-New All-Different MCU, but fumbled to do so in an interesting and captivating manner.
Hawkeye was good, though Kate Bishop currently has no place in MCU, and by the time we do get Young Avengers or Champions— we’ll be due for a recast.
Ms. Marvel was good though suffered from the Disney+ curse of mid show whiplash when the tone shifts and actual plot finally becomes apparent. (* first appearance of Damage Control as an antagonistic force and retconned Ms.Marvel as a mutant in a post- Marvel having the X-Men film & TV rights back in their hands)
Captain America and the Winter Soldier was ok but having a few plot points dropped mid-production made the show weaker, and She-Hulk dropping (its Hulk vial sub-plot affected the film Captain America Brave New World).
Ironheart was ruined by production hell, no longer tied to Armor Wars — which itself was cancelled, and shoe-horned to tie in loosely to the greater MCU, via a soft Black Panther 3 thread.
She-Hulk was ok but held back by pushing the “message” and failing to do so tastefully. (Again hulk-vial subplot dropped when the show decided to lean all in on the message and comedy). Fully expecting She-Hulk to be rebooted and recast, or better yet scrap it and do Red She-Hulk since Betty Ross hasnt been addressed recently.
Secret Invasion: too late, too weak and failed to have a legitimate twist/ consequence for the greater MCU, also Super Skrull not being based on the fantastic 4 is hilarious and bad.
For those who might care the only true required watching currently is:
WandaVision (for Doctor Strange & the Multiverse of Madness, Agatha All Along, and Vision Quest)
Loki: 1What if? — timeline splitting and branching into a multiverse, 2 Doctor Strange & the Multiverse of Madness,
3 Antman & the Wasp Quatummania — though Kang is scrapped in a post Jonathan Majors world,
4 Deadpool & Wolverine — TVA, the void, Alioth
I gave up at the same time, when they started vomiting series on Disney + and movies like no tomorrow.
I quit buying Marvel comics for the same reason: you had to buy (watch) 16 comics (films/series) you didn't care about, to keep up with the current arc.
Fuck that, I only want to watch/read the things I like, not every bit of media you're putting out.
It didn't really matter what they did imo. Endgame was just the perfect ending to the saga, and as soon as I walked out of that theater I was pretty satisfied with the MCU and had had my fill.
It certainly doesn't help that most of the stuff they've pushed out since then is terrible anyway.
I liked the run of tv shows. The Sam wilson cap story arcs are also good, but ive always like captain america. Everything else is just really weak and lacking of substance, or doesnt explore anything interesting.
P.S. the spider man movies have also always managed to stay amazing.
At the time, I thought that Endgame was going to be the end of the whole Marvel universe. It's kind of the only reason I went. I saw Infinity War and Endgame and I didn't know who half the characters were, but I felt like I was participating in a cultural event. And then they just kept churning out movie after movie, and they're still doing it. I'm tired, boss
The animation was fine, all the sequences of She Hulk in indoor lighting and darkness looked excellent, the finer details of her appearance (eyes, hair, etc) are all done extremely well (that's not from my opinion, that's the Corridor Digital guys who do CGI for a living), the issues are two things: One that it's hard to make a CGI human look good in outdoor natural lighting (so the shot people bitched about with her at the wedding getaway in the dress, and the scenes in the corner office with the full length windows) compared to when you can match the lighting of an indoor scene; and Two because as a female character she's not allowed to have the pores and texture that make Hulk look good. If they were adapting the runs of the comic where She Hulk was savage like Hulk and not the runs where she's more attractive and more confident when she's in Hulk form, then they could have used all the tech they use for Ruffalo but for the character to read as attractive to the audience she needed smooth, clear skin which then looks poorly textured even though they had proper subsurface scattering and stuff going on with her.
To be fair, pretty much this in the comics as well.
I remember a comic segment where the teacher validated the girl's dreams "You can be anything" but she looked dissatisfied because she was fishing for a 'no' as an answer so that she could argue with the tacher.
Finally the teacher relented and said "Fine, you'll never be Iron Man." And then she pretty much went down that line out of sheer pettiness.
The issue is that she was playing around with much better tech, with millions in scholarship cash, and an internship in wakanda and wasnt able to replicate even the most basic shit Tony made
Not to mention IM3, he accomplished more with $200 and a home depot than she did at MIT
IM3 was charming and hella underrated, frankly. The PTSD arc and the whole "he's still a superhero without his suit" bits are done really well.
The bit with that tiny kid being a sidekick or whatever briefly was a bit cliched, and they went down an overly-comedic route with The Mandarin, but overall it was still a really nice way to wrap up the trilogy for the Iron Man character.
I loved Harley and Tony's relationship, they were both smart kids with absent parents, except Harley didn't have the privilege of Tony's wealth and still made cool gadgets.
The "cuz we're connected" line always makes me laugh.
It was very hard to see a person capable of single-handedly building billion-dollar military hardware (an iron man suit) in a garage as any sort of oppressed person just struggling to catch a break.
Society isn't perfectly meritocratic, but it would absolutely shower a person who can build the real-world equivalent of an F-22 in their garage with capital.
But that is Ironheart's flaw that she grows and corrects in the series, right? Like she starts off super cocky and has some incorrect assumptions, and then she gets humbled and changes her view?
It's one thing if the SHOW thinks her opinion is correct, and it's another if this is a character flaw and the character is punished for it. Is that not just normal character building?
Didn't she say "You'll never be Tony Stark." specifically? Everyone knew Tony Stark was Iron Man at that point, so aside from something like identity theft becoming a new Iron Man was the only way she could "become" Tony Stark.
I had to Google it, it's yet another terrible Disney+ show.
Apparently, Sacha Baron Cohen (Borat) played Mephisto. I kind of want to see how that worked out. He's a good actor, but pretty much the last person I would guess to be in a MCU movie or show. I don't recognize anyone else in the show.
he nailed mephisto, the show isn't that bad either but they really need better writers. hell for a successor to such beloved heroes you'd need the absolute best writers in the first place.
Sometimes it's a problem where a character will be a minority/woman/etc and the show will have genuine problems... but people will assume all of the criticism comes from racists/sexists.
Then you just argue in circles about whether it's genuinely bad or if people just hate women/BIPOC/LGBT, etc.
Recently I saw a post where a woman influencer was criticised for her actions and many people claimed that a male influencer wouldn't face the same criticism.
It's stupid because I've seen so many people talking about how the culture war is a smokescreen for the class war and yet people eat it up.
No gender war for me, thanks. Only class war, please.
Uhhh of course you'd say that because the upper class are all men!
Sort of "Are you a bot or just influenced by them?" responses.
Unfortunately, the studio execs are going to see this flopping and think "we can't have diverse leads," instead of "our whole release plan and the way we're creating our interconnection universe is flawed."
>Sometimes it's a problem where a character will be a minority/woman/etc and the show will have genuine problems
In fairness, that often *is* the genuine problem. Often the producers have made the character a minority/woman and think of that as new and groundbreaking, so the hard part is done. The show is already breaking new ground, so you don't need to get particularly creative with the actual writing. Or maybe it's the other way around. They know they are out of good ideas, so they swap up the character's race and/or gender as a way of trying to be interesting, a version of the glass cliff concept you get in politics.
A lot of older Marvel movies had bad writing (Iron Man 2 and 3, Thor 2, Ragnarok, Black Panther) yet were doing well and people like them, me included. But the moment you need to watch 8 different movies and TV shows to understand entire plot of a sidekick movie, you just tune out. And yes, you can just not watch that all and see the movie as is. But you do miss a lot of nuances, have no clue who is what character or why they are there (e.g. Dr. Strange is pretty much instrumental for like 6 movies) and so on. It makes the movies confusing.
Endgame was the end for many, only to pop in for spider man and then ignore the marvel movies again.
There will be marvel revival in like 15-20 years again, but as of now for a lot of people they became spaghetti westerns you need to watch all to understand them.
It's kinda infuriating. They seem to constantly go something like "This is a progress show with women/poc as main cast, ergo if people don't like it they are basement dwelling incels. So why then bother with component writers"
"This show has a poc, female, trans, autistic character with 8 toes on one foot and it's gonna be awesome because of it!"
People criticise that this is clearly just pandering to the current buzzword heavy cultural zeitgeist, and you're being called bigoted for calling a spade a spade.
She-Hulk absolutely had flaws, but it absolutely killed me when she just, instead of wrapping the season by doing something, does it by fourth wall break and just declares herself the winner.
That, and the entire thing of "I'm a woman so I know how to control my emotions" not when you're a being of literal rage but okay. The rest of the show was honestly fine, nothing I'm clamoring for a season 2 of, but yeah, feels vastly overhated
I have issues when a property makes other properties, that were already good, less good in retrospect (because of lazyness or ideology in this case I don't care which).
Their explanation of her having complete control of an other worldy rage monster that lives insider her because shes a woman that gets cat called sometimes undermined a 15 year arch of bruce banner going through the most unspeakable tragedies and coming out the other side.
In a vacuum where the hulk doesn't exist, sure whatever i don't care. But now every movie with hulk is a little bit worse because it turns out bruce banner is just a fragile baby and doesn't understand how to handle a sidewise comment from a stranger.
I think She-Hulk also suffered from the wrong audience. Obligatory "it has its flaws" sentence clause, but a lot of people's criticisms seem to revolve around things that are just how She-Hulk operates. The 4th wall breaks (she was doing that before Deadpool was even a character), having muuuuuuuuuch better control of her powers, hell the infamous twerking scene is wildly in character. It's totally fine to dislike the character She-Hulk, I know some people who hate the whole dorky, quirky personality, and therefore really don't like Kamala Khan. But I think the show got some unnecessary flak.
Yeah that's my main issue, I can point out these flaws but I still loved most of the humor and other moments in the show, it wasn't utter trash like everyone online keeps making it out to be.
The only way you could come to the conclusion that She-Hulk was intended to be a "successor" to the Incredible Hulk, is if you'd never watched the show or read a She-Hulk comic.
Really lost me when Banner, a character that was so depressed at one point that the only reason he didn’t commit suicide was because Hulk literally wouldn’t let him, is told that he cannot comprehend how terrible it is to be catcalled.
This one right here. As someone who was once a depressed young man full of rage, the minute they invalidated Bruce's struggles, I dropped the show. Haven't seen anything else outside of clips.
There are moments when it's tolerable, and then there are moments like the Abomination speaking event thing that are just so laughably bad that I get second hand embarrassment for everybody involved in the show.
Any moment I found tolerable just ended up being such a let down at the end. They had foreshadowed so many things only to do a gotcha into a fourth wall break that it just felt like the storys events did not matter
I haven’t watched the Cap movie but Falcon and the Winter Soldier was mediocre at best with some high points like the ones with Isaiah Bradley.
It didn’t handle the racism (it’s ridiculous that the police didn’t recognize Falcon or I am thinking too highly of USA) well or the immigrant issue. If they were gonna make the Flag-smashers sympathetic, don’t let them commit mass terrorism towards the end.
It tried to tackle serious issues but it's done with a very superficial and in-your-face way that it just felt shallow and show-y. Not just the main plot but the characters too.
Rumor is that covid caused last-minute reshoots and rewrites because the original plot by Karli and the Flag Smashers was a bioweapon. That's why they were stealing medicine in the heist episode.
I never watched the new captain america movie, but the falcon and the winter soldier was nowhere near as good as phase 1 or 2 marvel. The themes were very inconsistent and it was just a weird story that was rewritten multiple times because of the pandemic. In another world it could have been a great show, but what we got isn’t nearly as good as either of the first 2 captain America stories
It was a decent enough fight imo, but it just didn't make any sense. Sam's Cap doesn't have the super syrum, so he's literally just a dude with the Cap shield and his fancy wings. He shouldn't have stood a chance against a Hulk for more than a couple of seconds at best. The only other characters we've seen take on a Hulk in combat were the ones way more powerful than even Steve Rodgers, let alone Sam Wilson, like Thor, Iron-Man in his specific 'Hulk Buster' suit, Thanos, and even Spider-Man.
shouldn't sam's current suit be stronger than the initial hulk buster, with the vibranium and all? i didn't find it unbelievable, they even showed that red hulk is still out of his league and he can't fight on equal footing
She Hulk was never a "successor" character, though. She was never intended to be taking over Hulk's place in the Avengers or the MCU. Her show was a super hero courtroom comedy with some action mixed in which, actually, is what her best comic runs usually are.
The only one of these that was ever planned as a "successor" was captain america. If iron heart ever shows up again, it is just as likely to be as a villain than a hero, based on the actual show
I think there was definitely a few years where the writing was lackluster and audiences couldn't keep up with the streaming show tie ins etc. In the case of these three characters specifically thats true for all of them
That's the thing though, the writing was lacklustre. People weren't getting sick of superhero movies, they were getting sick of mediocre superhero movies.
Jennifer said getting cat called was worse than what Bruce had gone through. You know small things like his dad abusing him and his mom,his girlfriends dad treating him like shit,his girlfriends dad hunting him around the world,going on a rampage through a major city,losing the woman he loved.
Riri talked shit about the guy who sacrificed himself to save the world while slacking off at her Ivy League school and helping kids cheat. After making the suit she decided to work with criminals and is surprised that goes bad for her.
Honestly Falcon wasn't good or bad it just was meh in my opinion. I enjoyed the dynamic between Sam and Bucky though.
"Do you think Tony Stark would be Iron Man without all that money" TONY STARK WAS ABLE TO BUILD THIS IN A CAVE..... WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS. The kid from Iron man 3 or Spiderman would be better at replacing Tony than "Ironheart"
For all the racism and sexism criers I want to know why nobody hated Alien or Blade or any other good movie with non white Male leads. You guys feed the racism even more than the kkk (which is ridiculous).
It goes deeper, these movies are the poster children for enshittification. Marvel realized superhero fatigue set in and pop culture dropped MCU after end game. The universe was wrapped up, with a bow on it, and the story was complete
BUT, disney was up marvel’s ass to make more money for shareholders because if line dont go up then suits get mad. So marvel made these hastily made shit shows. Then to cover for their shittiness they ham fisted progressive social issues to deflect any criticism when the public didnt like it. MCU fan boys could then cry racism and disney would back off marvel when the shows failed
If you listen to bob iger’s first earnings call back as CEO of Disny he had to explicitly say that they arent pushing social issues and will rest MCU because investors were so mad
Basically it was the worst of capitalism and disingenuous corporate social pandering. Literally everyone hated it except MCU stans
MCU's Iron Man's successor wasn't Iron Heart though, it is MCU's Spider Man, even after they deliberately tried to distance Spider Man from Iron Man by severing Peter's every significant connection in No Way Home.
2 are women and 2 are black. Except OP is full of shit. She-Hulk is not a successor to Hulk because Hulk is very much still around. And She-Hulk series is just shit, same with Ironheart. The actual reason those flopped is they are mediocre to shit movies/series coming out at time a lot of people had already tapped out of the MCU.
Honestly Tom Holland’s Spider-Man is far more a successor to Tony Stark than Riri. Different stakes and abilities, sure, but Stark was a mentor/father figure to him. The only thing Iron Heart has is a reverse engineered Iron Man suit. Now I didn’t read the comics she was in, so I have no idea how she fits in the story there, but in the MCU her character overall kinda felt shoehorned in at the last moment to fill the Iron Man “tech savvy” niche.
i'm not going to claim that marvel doesn't have an audience heavily consisting of that one uncle you try to avoid at family reunions but doesn't she hulk end with the bad writing resulting in jennifer literally leaving the episode to confront the writers over how much it sucks
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u/qualityvote2 1d ago edited 1d ago
u/Apart_Lawfulness3258, your post does belong here!